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May 10, 2023

Ep 150: ”InBetweenIsh: Life as a Cross-Cultural Child” ft Beatriz Nour

In this exciting episode of White Label American, I have the pleasure of interviewing Beatriz Nour, a passionate podcast enthusiast who launched her own podcast, the Inbetweenish Pod. Join us as we delve into Beatriz's personal journey of navigating ...

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In this exciting episode of White Label American, I have the pleasure of interviewing Beatriz Nour, a passionate podcast enthusiast who launched her own podcast, the Inbetweenish Pod. Join us as we delve into Beatriz's personal journey of navigating the challenging space of living between countries, cultures, ethnicities, and faiths. As a Brazilian-Egyptian with a French twist, Beatrice shares her struggles of finding a true sense of belonging and a place to call home. Throughout our conversation, we explore Beatrice's experiences as a cross-cultural kid, including her mixed cultural identity and the challenges she faced growing up in France without French citizenship. We also examine the importance of naming in different cultures and religions and the impact it has on personal identity.

Beatriz and I delve into the complexities of name pronunciation across different languages and share our personal experiences with our own names while residing in various countries. During our discussion, Beatriz mentions the challenges she faced with paperwork due to the different naming practices in Brazil and Egypt. In Brazil, it is customary to take both the mother's and father's surnames, while in Egypt, the naming convention is more patriarchal with multiple names involved. This can be especially difficult for those of mixed heritage who must either accept their parents' naming philosophy or go through the arduous process of changing it.

Beatriz is a woman of Brazilian and Egyptian descent who grew up in France with unique language dynamics in her family. She shares her experience of moving to Egypt, where she learned Arabic as her third language, and her exposure to American pop culture as a teenager. Her comfort with speaking multiple languages is a testament to the importance of embracing and celebrating linguistic diversity. Throughout our conversation, we reflect on our childhood memories and the impact that our names and language have had on shaping our identities.

As we dive deeper, we discuss the common experiences of identity crises and feeling like an outsider among cross-cultural individuals. If you're someone who has faced similar challenges or is simply interested in learning more about navigating a cross-cultural identity, this episode is a must-listen. Tune in to White Label American and join the conversation (Also, check out InBetweenish Podcast)!

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Connect with Beatriz Nour

Inbetweenish website: https://www.inbetweenish.net/
Newsletter: https://inbetweenish.ck.page/4d306f7a58 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/inbetweenish.pod/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/inbetweenishpod


The Cultural Significance of Names: "It's definitely interesting, the relationship you have to different languages and people from those countries in terms of how they pronounce your name. It's a very personal thing. Right. It's the first thing you get when you're born, is a name."— Beatriz Nour 00:09:5400:11:58

The Challenges of Dual Citizenship: "It takes two to make a kid, and if anything, the mother is the one who carried the child. Why is her name nowhere?"— Beatriz Nour 00:16:3500:19:36

Growing Up in a Multicultural Household: "I think the makeup of my family is a bit unusual."— Beatriz Nour 00:22:5200:29:13

Childhood Memories: "I spent my 6th birthday in Brazil, and my mom and my grandma and my great grandma, because I had the chance to meet her, she had a very long life. They threw me a birthday party in Brazil and in my great grandma's house."— Beatriz Nour 00:36:2300:38:31

Feeling Like an Outsider: "To be honest, I don't think I've ever really felt the feeling of being at home. And I think it's something that people who are mixed and have moved around a little, I think it's a very common feeling."— Beatriz Nour 00:47:1900:50:27

Being Black in France: "The wider you are, the better you're treated."— Beatriz Nour 00:51:4200:55:24

Identity and Belonging: "But traveling is a very big reminder of, like, you belong to this country, you know, no matter how you feel. But on paper, you belong to this country."— Beatriz Nour 01:00:5901:04:20

"In Between Ish": "Third culture kid by definition means someone who grew up in a culture that is different from the culture of their parents. And the assumption here is that the parents come from the same cultures, from the same culture. So you are between your parents' culture and the cultures that you grew up in and so therefore you are this third culture and accumulation of these different cultures, your parents and the countries you've lived in."— Beatriz Nour 01:05:3801:10:59

Growing up Cross-Cultural: "There are common experiences, no matter what the cultures that you're exposed to are, but there's common experiences to being cross-cultural."— Beatriz Nour 01:11:0001:15:52

My Favorite Cuisine: "But in terms of my favorite cuisine, I have to hand it to Ethiopians. They know their vegetables and their spices, and it's really good. But yeah, Egyptian food is amazing."— Beatriz Nour 01:18:4901:20:17


Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to White Label american Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold in depth interviews with interesting people that are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls one story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us. You welcome to another episode of White Label American. Thank you all for joining us today. And for everyone who's giving us five stars, showing us love on social media and sharing our episodes, we say thank you, Shukran Duncan and Umbana. So if you're not doing that, please be doing it. And for our new listeners, yeah, we invite you to participate in sharing the love. Keep supporting because we are indie podcasters and we need as much support as possible. Now, if you don't know where to go, go to www.whitelabelamerican.com and show some love. You see the review button there. Drop an awesome review, five stars only. Don't be a hater and give us four stars. And if you want to take your support to the next level, you see the donate button right there. You can donate as much as the spirit leads you to do. Don't be like those people are giving trump money. And then you can give a hardworking black gentleman some good dollars. We take Euros to and pound stealings. Now don't be giving crooks money and then you don't give good people money. So with that being said, you can also buy match. Also we have new match. We have marks that just came out, whichever colors that you want. But we put white on social media. It doesn't mean we are sending some people messages, but it's just what we put on social media. So show love. You can join Patreon. We have extra heating podcasts only on Patreon. We talk about shows that we like. Latest is the last of us and we have other stuff coming up. So, yeah, go out there, enjoy, and for as low as $3, join our Patreon. With that being said, let's meet today's guest. I have the honor of bringing someone who represents I haven't had anybody like this before, but I met this sister virtually and I just fell in love with the work that she's doing. She is Brazilian, Egyptian ish, and there's a little sprinkle of French interwoven in the mix. Identity Crisis is well frequented in her world and she decided to explore the premises with other fellow dwellers through her podcast titled In Between Ish. I love that title. Great title. We'll find out how she came up about it. So, with that being said, let's meet Beatrice Noah. Welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Beatriz Nour [00:03:16]:

Thank you for that introduction. I'm good. I am excited to be here. This is my first guest appearance, so I guess I get to see the other side of things, how it is to guest versus host. Yeah, interesting experience.

Raphael Harry [00:03:33]:

It's an honor to have you here and you're doing great work. I love listening to your podcast. It's a beautiful journey that always takes me on. And there are so many artificial walls that each episode removes. So I'm really honored to have you here and I'm pleased with the work that you're doing. So keep doing amazing and beautiful work. So let's dive into the very beginning. What is the meaning of your name, and is there a story behind it?

Beatriz Nour [00:04:10]:

Yes, actually, there is a meaning to my name, beatrice. Beatrice is a Latin name, and it means blessed and also the one who brings joy. And I'm not sure everyone would agree with that when they meet me, but that is the meaning my grandma named me because yeah, my grandma named me. My father wanted to give me an ancient Egyptian name. Very grateful he didn't do that. And noor, it means light in Arabic.

Raphael Harry [00:04:55]:

I've had that before.

Beatriz Nour [00:04:58]:

It means light in Arabic, but also in Turkish. It also means light, like a couple of different languages.

Raphael Harry [00:05:03]:

Okay, I remember now when I was in Bakrain yeah, I took Arabic one and two, and I did well, I got A's in both classes, by the way. And yes, that's where I saw Noah. Light.

Beatriz Nour [00:05:20]:

Light, yeah, exactly. So you speak a bit of Arabic then?

Raphael Harry [00:05:26]:

I haven't spoken over, what, twelve years? Ten years, yeah, it's in the brain.

Beatriz Nour [00:05:35]:

It's still there. Yeah, for sure. Well, you started off with Shokran in.

Raphael Harry [00:05:40]:

The beginning, john Wick in Moments of danger, it comes out. So you you are grateful that your dad didn't get his choice of name. Why are you grateful?

Beatriz Nour [00:05:59]:

Have you met many people with, like, an ancient Egyptian name nowadays? I think that would be open invitation to bullying. I'm grateful I don't have an ancient name. No, I love my name. I mean, I think it's funny. Just this week I attended a live what's it called? Like a live podcast episode event where.

Raphael Harry [00:06:26]:

They were live streaming.

Beatriz Nour [00:06:29]:

Well, no, it wasn't a streaming because this was recorded in 2017. Okay. It's an episode from Kerning Cultures. Kerning Cultures is a network of podcasts in the Middle East, and they have this episode called what's in the Name? And they were talking about Arabs who go abroad to the west, particularly the US, who have names that are easy, common in Arabic, but very hard to pronounce for a Westerner or for Americans. So they end up having to change their names or accommodate or change the sound of their name or adopt a new name, very often an Ahmed, which is a very common name in the Muslim world. And in the Middle East, if they go to the US. Sometimes they'll adopt the name Ed because when they present themselves, they say, like, oh, I'm Ahmed, and people will hear like, I'm Ed, which is like, it's not the same name, but I had kind of, like, the opposite. Oh, yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:07:38]:

Remember, I'm of a totally different background. So there's no way you say your name is Ahmed. If I meet you and I'll hear Ed, and I also have a nephew Ed, I'll be like, what your name? Is it's the opposite. If I meet an Akmed who addresses himself as Ed, I'll be like, what's wrong with you, man? But I get it, because I know a lot of people from China, India who have similar stories of changing their names. Or I had an English, quote unquote, English name, what in Nigeria referred to as English names over here in America. And then when you build a relationship with that person and then the person later and tell you, oh, actually my name is then you get there like, Wait a minute, this is your real name. Okay, I get it. I've actually had someone on my podcast who admitted that, and she now lives in China. And when we first met, the name that I knew her by for a while on campus was typical white woman name in America. And one day I noticed that that wasn't the name that she wrote on her book. And I said what was going on? Yeah, people can't pronounce my name. I said, what's your name? And she told me, that's an easy name. But it's like those of us who come who weren't born here from outside, we used to accents and pronunciations. It's easy for us to pick those names, I guess, because for me, to me, her name did not sound difficult to pronounce. It was easy for me, the way she said it. I thought, oh, yeah, I can pronounce that. But every time I hear these stories, I'm like, wow, is it really that difficult for someone? But those people, it's never difficult for them to pronounce tatanovsky, though. That's what it's buffing me. So I don't know. But I get it, though. I get it.

Beatriz Nour [00:09:54]:

Yeah, I think there are certain every language has its own sounds. And for example, in Portuguese, I don't even know how to say how you say PO. It sounds like it's an N. It's not really an N, but even like, in Arabic, you have the ain, you have the ha, you have these different sounds that don't necessarily that's why I struggle with in the English language. But for example, the ha is very common in Dutch. I had a bit of the opposite issue because I was born in France, and so my name Beatrice in France is quite common. Not common, but it's not unusual, I guess. And in Brazil as well, it's a common name in Brazil, in Latin America in general. But when I moved to Egypt, there are no Beatrices in Egypt, even though we have all the sounds of my name. But it was just like an unusual name there. So I would get called, like, all sorts of different names. So I had a bit of the opposite experience to, I guess, like Arabs that move to the west and have to adopt a name. When I was younger, I really didn't like my name because people would butcher it all the time. And I'm sure you have this experience when Nigerians will say your name. It's very different than when Americans will say your name. And you have a different you react differently to when your name is pronounced differently. So when I speak to Brazilians, it's different. My feeling about it is different. But in Egypt, when people are mispronouncing it, I had a complex relationship. I didn't like my name when I was younger. I've grown out of that. I do like my name now. But yeah, it's definitely interesting, the relationship you have to different languages and people from those countries in terms of how they pronounce your name. It's a very personal thing. Right. It's the first thing you get when you're born, is a name.

Raphael Harry [00:11:58]:

That's true. Well, before I go to what I was going to say about my name in Nigeria, your name is the first time I have met someone with Beatrice, with the Z. I think in Nigeria is the ice that I'm used to because I think we call it Beatrice. That's how we say it in Nigeria. Yeah. So I've seen a few of that in Nigeria. And when it comes to my name, we have a lot of ethnic groups in Nigeria, about 300. And I'm from a minority ethnic group, not from the big three that most people are familiar with. And I was born in the middle part of the country, and then I moved to the southern part, which is where I'm from. But I lived in a different state where I'm not also a majority, majority tribe. But my name stood out still. But it's looking back now that I begin to realize some of these things. So I had always been an outsider in a way. And when my name was pronounced everywhere, there was different. It was never pronounced the right way in most places, but I think in Minnesota, I got what most part, it was said correctly, was said Raphael. And then I moved to Ibadan and that's where the main differentiation began. Sorry. In Benin City. Sometimes I got era failed. I don't know where the A came from, but era fail. Some people said IRA fail. And then Raphaeli started out of the E, started coming at the end. Now Raphaeli. And then they would change it. Where my middle name oil Life, they were now switching it to Omar. They wanted me to be a Yoruba. So it was like they were trying to make it Euroba name, by all means. And they won't be able to pronounce the OEM because I have memories of being at public places waiting for my name to be called because they will read your whole names and they will say, Omo. I'm like, who's the omo here? That's not my name. The person will be arguing with me that I don't know my own name. And I'm like, Why? So there was clashes like that. And then I remember the first time I signed up at the public school that I finished, the first question I was asked by the vice principal was, are you from Ghana or Liberia? Because we had Liberian refugees based on my name, Raphael Hari. That was a name they had associated with Liberians or Ghanaians. And they never identified me as a Nigerian until I graduated from that school. That was the way they interpreted our name, that I wasn't from that country, I wasn't from that area, and I did not speak Yoruba so Disqualifiers disqualifiers. And there was just stuff like that. So it's fascinating how names work. I don't know what would have happened if I was in the northern part of the country. I need to talk to somebody who had similar names to mine, is from my part of the country and lived in the northern part, in the north, to see if their story is similar to mine. But just because they could pronounce the names doesn't mean they still accepted you. It's weird how it works in different places. It's just weird how the system works in some of our places. But, yeah, just reminded me one quick thing about your name. One of my most recent guests just pointed this out. I never had never thought about this. So in Germany, it's uncommon to have middle names. Is that also a thing with you guys?

Beatriz Nour [00:16:19]:

Well, it depends on what you mean by you guys.

Raphael Harry [00:16:21]:

Sorry. Egyptians? Brazilians. I know Brazilians tend to have a lot of names, like the soccer players I'm familiar with. Which side did you fall on when it comes to the names, the Brazilian or the Egyptian?

Beatriz Nour [00:16:35]:

You know, it's it's a funny question that you asked that, because that's actually something I've always had trouble with, is my paperwork, because my name in I'm a dual citizen, and my name in my Brazilian passport and paperwork is different than my name in my Egyptian passport and paperwork. Because the philosophy in Brazil, and I believe this is in Latin South America in general, is you'll have maybe a first and second name. Sometimes it'll be like Anna Maria and then two last names. Yeah, the mother's family, basically, and then the mother's family name sorry, surname. And then the father's family name or surname. And so usually ends up being four names altogether. And I really like that because I think I have a bit of an issue with only taking the father's side. It takes two to make a kid, and if anything, the mother is the one who carried the child. Why is her name nowhere? So I really appreciate that. In Brazilian culture, the norm is to actually take the mother's surname as well as the father's surname. Now, that was not the case with me because I think my parents wanted to keep it somewhat consistent. In Egypt, the philosophy is different. So you don't have two first names. So just to clarify, not everyone in Brazil will have two first names, so some people will, and other people will just get one first name, but everyone will get the mother's family name and then the father's family name. In Egypt, it's different because it's just different. It's very patriarchal. So you have your first name, you have your father's first name, you have your grandfather's first name, and then you have your family name. And so that means that in my Egyptian password, I have two more names that I don't have in my Brazilian paperwork. And that's actually proven, like, I've had to prove that I'm the same person at government offices, at airports and stuff like that when I travel, because my names are different in my Brazilian password, it's just like my first name and my father's family name, and then in my Egyptian, it's all those four names altogether. So, yeah, it's a different naming philosophy and different cultures and different religions as well have different naming philosophies. So when you're mixed, I think your parents have to make this choice, and then you kind of have to live with whatever they chose or try and not correct it. But if you grow up and you decide, like, no, I don't want this naming philosophy, I prefer this one, then you can change it. But it's hard to change your name. It's a lot of paperwork.

Raphael Harry [00:19:37]:


Beatriz Nour [00:19:41]:

Even in the sense of, like, sorry.

Raphael Harry [00:19:44]:

No, go ahead.

Beatriz Nour [00:19:46]:

Well, I mean, there are in certain countries and in certain cultures and religions, like, when you get married, you'll take your husband's name.

Raphael Harry [00:19:53]:


Beatriz Nour [00:19:56]:

In Islam, you don't take your husband's name. You maintain your family name, your family's surname. So, yeah, they're just different naming philosophies. I wonder what the root of all this is. But it's definitely different.

Raphael Harry [00:20:12]:

That's something that needs to be I need to explore that, too. What's the root of all this? Because I wasn't aware that in Islam, the woman does not have to take the husband's name.

Beatriz Nour [00:20:23]:

It's not does not have to she does not she does not know. It's actually seen as quite unusual if you do.

Raphael Harry [00:20:32]:

Wow, that's news to me. I'm thinking because there are a lot of Muslims around me in Nigeria, and that might be yeah, might you see this? This is why it's good to talk to people from around, from everywhere, because if you just have a little one experience and think, this is it, this is how it must be for everybody, then you just have an official wall that you've set up and you don't get it. And you start thinking that everybody's doing it wrong, but everyone listening. If you have any examples to share yeah, please share with us. Share with us. I love to learn because now I've learned something that I wasn't aware of this. And I grew up with so many Muslims, and I'm trying to juggle my memory now to see if I may have come across this information at any point in time. Maybe I was so deep in the patriarchy that I was like, no, woman, I ain't listening to this. You must take a man's name. Maybe that happened back then, but honestly, I can't recall. I can't recall.

Beatriz Nour [00:21:52]:

It's quite a Christian practice to take your husband's name and that I'm not surprised.

Raphael Harry [00:21:59]:

Honestly, I'm not surprised about that. Wow. That's why I love the first question I always start with. But anyway, let's dive into the next question. I'll definitely have to come back to that again. So you've already given an answer to the next what technically should have been my second question, second official question. But we're still going to go there. So can you officially introduce us to your place of birth and what childhood was like for you?

Beatriz Nour [00:22:41]:

We're going all the way back.

Raphael Harry [00:22:42]:

Yes. Your origin story. We need to know if we're getting a villain or a hero.

Beatriz Nour [00:22:52]:

So I was born in France, despite being Brazilian, Egyptian, I was born in France because my parents lived there at the time, and when they met, they lived there as well. So, yeah, I was born in Paris and I lived there for the first three years of my life. And I don't think I definitely didn't realize this when I was younger or growing up, but I think the makeup of my family is a bit unusual in the sense that my father left Egypt as a young adult. Same thing with my mother, she left Brazil, Rio, as a young adult and they met on a plane, but they met on a plane, but they both lived in France and they got married there, and I was born there. And despite them having their first languages, were respectively, arabic for my father and Portuguese for my mom. Their common language was French because they didn't speak each other's language. So I was born in a very funko, fun household, and so my name, Beatrice, in French was easy in France. Yeah, so that was easy, that was not complicated to pronounce, not unusual. And yeah, lived there for some time, for three years, and then me for three years. My father lived in France for 22 years. And then eventually my parents decided, you know what? We want to leave France. We want to go somewhere else, one of our countries. And ironically, my father, who's Egyptian, wanted to go to Brazil and my mother, who's Brazilian, wanted to go to Egypt, and my mom won the argument. And so we moved to Egypt and yeah, we moved to Egypt. I was three years old. That's where I learned Arabic, which was my third language, because first I learned French, and then I learned Portuguese because my Brazilian grandma would take care of me when I was younger. And then when I moved to Egypt, I learned Arabic. And then I learned English. And again, I didn't realize that it was unusual to speak four languages at such a young age. And I do mess up my languages and I make a lot of mistakes and stuff, but it's just kind of the way I was brought up. But yeah, with my parents it was always French. They were very attached despite moving to Egypt, we as a family were very attached to French culture. I watched like I'm a Disney child. I grew up in that era. I was born in the watched everything in French, I watched TV in French. And then going to an American school, I had to learn basically that's. When I started learning English I didn't speak a word when I went to Kg in Egypt at an American school and yeah, that's where English started coming in and then it became because it was the language I was being kind of schooled in academically it became my language of comfort. I think today I'm more comfortable in English than I am in my other languages, which is very weird to say that, because it's not my mother tongue, it's not the language we speak at home. But, yeah, that's what ended up happening. And then I got immersed as a teenager. You watch all these shifts. Like, all my friends speak English. So I was very immersed in American pop culture listened to all the artists, watched all the TV shows, all that stuff. So the cultural influences changed a little and still my grandma actually lived my Brazilian grandma ironically lived in Egypt before my parents even moved to Egypt. Yeah, it's an interesting story but my grandma was married to someone who was Egyptian before my mom met my dad he was not my grandfather and he was not a father figure to my mom because they got together and my mom was out of the house and older and stuff. But yeah, that's what happened. So as a result, my Brazilian grandma lived in Egypt and would again watch us a lot when we were younger. So yeah, it was a mix of different things. It's really funny because for example, in certain things in the kitchen I only know how to say them in French and Portuguese certain things like interacting with things in the street and kind of like day to day life. I know it more in Arabic academically I know certain things in English and French that I don't know in other languages so it's a mix of different things and I'm most comfortable today talking to people who speak some of my languages like if someone speaks Arabic in English, I'm more comfortable with that. That was kind of like my childhood, very culturally mixed. Very my father is Coptic Christian from Egypt, my mother is Catholic from Brazil and so we were kind of bought up with those two they're not different faiths, but there are different, I guess, practices of Christianity. And so, for example, I mean Easter. So we would celebrate two different Easters and two different Christmases. And beyond that, we didn't really go to church. I was a confusing household, looking back, I guess, confused identity as a household entirely. But it turned out I mean, I think I turned out all right.

Raphael Harry [00:29:14]:

Okay, you did. So it seems like it's not uncommon to see Brazilian Egyptian marriages or household because until I came across you, that was like, the first time I heard of a Brazilian Egyptian couple. And then I was like, wow, now I'm hearing your grandmother also married to an Egyptian. I'm like, Wait a minute, was there something going on I never heard about of Egyptians and Brazilians having something going on for some time? Wow. I think relationships are not as black and white as I'm always fascinated to see or hear of such history. Like the way sometimes people always talk of interracial relationships. And it's always people, like sometimes but just talk as if it's only black and white couples. And I'm like, no, it transcends more than that. People been interacting with others for who knows how long and why. I mentioned oh, that there's an African sister who's of Brazilian Egyptian heritage. And I'm trying to tell somebody about your podcast. It's always light up like wait, what? Brazil egyptian. How did happen?

Beatriz Nour [00:30:48]:

On a plane, apparently.

Raphael Harry [00:30:49]:

On a plane. It's beautiful. It wasn't just a one time thing. There's a lot of Brazil Egyptians apparently happening. And if there's Brazilian Egyptians, that means there's probably Tunisian Argentinians and probably there's more and more expanding and the universe gets more and more smaller, as they say. So it's just beautiful hearing you talk about it. That's the point I'm making.

Beatriz Nour [00:31:19]:

There isn't a huge Brazilian Egyptian community. There is a small community. I grew up kind of like around this community in Egypt. I think maybe we were a group of 30 couples, I guess, that were Brazilian Egyptians sorry, couples that were Brazilians married to Egyptians, 2030 that we knew about. Because there is a Brazilian embassy and presence in Egypt, and because there's a small Brazilian population there, they would do a lot of different events. So that's where we would kind of like all gather and meet and stuff. But there is a very big Lebanese Brazilian population that lives in Brazil. There's a lot of Lebanese people that immigrated to Brazil. They're now very integrated.

Raphael Harry [00:32:13]:

They're everywhere.

Beatriz Nour [00:32:14]:

Yeah, right.

Raphael Harry [00:32:16]:

Shout out to the Lebanese in Nigeria. Yeah, there was a Lebanese shipmate of mine in the navy. And I remember one day we're talking, we fell out now, unfortunately, he fell into the right wing MAGA thing, unfortunately. But before then, one day we're having a conversation and somebody brought up Dr. Congo and he was like, oh, yeah, I got a cousin there. Yeah, I got a cousin there. And he was like, Actually, I got cousins in Dia, Congo, and then sell this in African countries. I've been to Nigeria, too. I was like, man, this guy's been to more African countries than I have. Man, I don't like you. I've been jealous. Get out here, man. I won't see you no more coming around me. But it became clear why he could hang out amongst the Africans. I was like, Well, Lebanese, you guys have any African countries we can't find Lebanese? And then diaspora. They're everywhere. So shout out to them. And we love Lebanese food. Nigeria. We love Lebanese food. But if you meet a Nigerian who just came out of Nigeria for the first time, if you want to see a good reaction, take them to Go Ishawama and watch that Nigerian's reaction. You're going to have a good laugh because they're going to be like, what is this? What is this nonsense? It's not shawama. It's not ishawama. We have Raishawama in Nigeria. I'm like, man, somebody got to tell you that Lebanese, they somehow made it different. They kind of made it for Nigeria. And we didn't know that there's different types of sharama, because I did the same thing when I arrived in Baraby and I tried show them up for the first time. Look at what they call burrito in America. This guy's made a mistake. Okay? I did the same thing, too. No better. But it was funny seeing every Nigerian come to Bakrain and they were like, My guy, you say, Buy me sharma there's not sharama. We have Rachama in Nigeria. Come to Nigeria, we show you shama. Yeah. So blame the Lebanese for that. So sticking with your childhood, this is going to be an interesting question for you. What do you consider your favorite childhood memory to be?

Beatriz Nour [00:34:48]:

He needs to give me some time to think about that. You can't just bring a question.

Raphael Harry [00:34:51]:

That's the point. At this moment, what do you consider a favorite childhood memory to be? I don't give guests time to think about that. Even if I give them time to think about that, they're still going. But, man, I have, like, 50 memories. I say, you see, so that's why I don't give you time right now at this moment. Bang. Go. You can pull, like, two memories if that will make it easier for you.

Beatriz Nour [00:35:19]:

The first thing that came to mind off the top of my head, there's two memories. There you go. The first, I guess, is, like, every summer, we would go to a particular beach on the Mediterranean Sea in Egypt. And my parents both come from coastal cities. I don't, but they both do. And I think they pass down their love for the sea to me and swimming and just being in the water. So we would always go there and spend, like, a week in summer. And I think that particular beach called Marsa matt. Rosa Mattua. And there's a hotel. There that we would always go to growing up. I haven't been there in more than a decade, but it was really special, I think. Very good memories with siblings and friends and parents there.

Raphael Harry [00:36:21]:

What city was that called?

Beatriz Nour [00:36:23]:

Marsa. Matua? No, that's the hotel was called BUSIT Hotel. But yeah, the Mars. It's a city on the coast of the Mediterranean Sea in Egypt, closer to the Lib like, closer to the Libya border of Egypt to the west. Because Egypt has like, two seas, the Red Sea, which is very different than the Mediterranean Sea, I think. The Mediterranean Sea, you go if you love to swim, and the Red Sea, you go if you love to see sea life, basically snorkeling, diving, that's all on the Red Sea and then swimming. Beautiful beaches like sand, softy beaches, turquoise water. That's on the north coast in Egypt. So, yeah, that's one of them. And I think the second one is one in Brazil. I spent my 6th birthday in Brazil, and my mom and my grandma and my great grandma, because I had the chance to meet her, she had a very long life. They threw me a birthday party in Brazil and in my great grandma's house. She had a beautiful apartment right on the beach in Rio. And I think the next day it was the next day after the birthday, actually. The birthday was great, I'm not complaining, but it was the next day after the birthday because they'd go all out and deck everything out and stuff. And we took all the balloons and put it in this room, and my sister and I were just like, stomping on them and popping balloons. I'm sure it was very annoying to the adults, but the kids had fun. That was a very fond memory, the day after their birthday. So, yeah, those are two childhood memories that I'm very fond of. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:38:31]:


Beatriz Nour [00:38:33]:

Haven't thought about that in a long time.

Raphael Harry [00:38:37]:

Another reason why I like asking this question and the way I ask it too, absolutely, I'm pretty sure makes guests smile and make them happy. And it also proves an ongoing theory that you all seem attracted to the same thing. Because somehow the beach always seems to come up. Everybody seems to end up picking people, going to the beach, some water body or wildlife park or something outdoor related. It's undefeated. I don't plan it. Even people who are like, I'm prepared, but I listen to a couple of episodes, I'm okay. And then I asked them and they're like, I still picked the same. Okay. You see?

Beatriz Nour [00:39:33]:

No, well done with that question.

Raphael Harry [00:39:36]:

Thank you. So your parents instilled the love of the beach or see life in you. Do you see yourself doing that, passing into the next generation, going forward?

Beatriz Nour [00:39:58]:

Oh, for sure. If we ever have kids, yeah, for sure. I think it's I mean, my partner and I live in in Dubai. It's a coastal city. I I would argue it's a coastal city that doesn't feel like a coastal city because of like the Hustle and all that. But you know, it does have, I think I was reading yesterday, like 1800 km, maybe 1600 coastline, basically. So it is a coastal country actually, beyond just being a city.

Raphael Harry [00:40:30]:

That's true.

Beatriz Nour [00:40:32]:

And yeah, for sure. I mean, yes, if we were to have kids, we definitely pass down the love for beach life and swimming. And I think there's a lot it's not just about the beach, actually. I think it's just like there's something about being out in nature, right, that is very special and very grounding, I think. So whether that's beach or for some other people it's mountains. That's a very more foreign form of nature for me. Maybe it doesn't come as naturally, but yeah, for sure we would pass that on, I think. I think kids today are also no.

Raphael Harry [00:41:17]:

Sorry, go ahead, finish. I didn't realize you were still going.

Beatriz Nour [00:41:23]:

Well, I was going to say, I don't know, maybe the kids would be more interested in the beach through the iPhone, you know what I mean? Kids are obsessed with their screens today, so who knows?

Raphael Harry [00:41:36]:

I would say don't underestimate that. I use my kid as an example. She comes out to me when I do my volunteering at the neighborhood garden. And she's been coming out before she could even talk. And they have toys there, so she mostly plays with her toys. But she loves her screen time too. But the point is, whatever they see you doing, they will do it, they will come, they will still do their thing. But if you take them out to nature, they'll come. And her school also helps too, because they do a lot of stuff in nature, but nothing bits. Going to the beach with her mom, she loves that. And sometimes she'll be the one screaming, Abe, let's go. Because once you've given them that experience and they see that it's fun screen time, they will still have fun with the screen. But once you expose them to that experience because I've had many people say kids don't like today's kids, it's easy to just assume that they will be buried in the screen. But many people forget that many kids are not given the opportunity to go to true, they're not exposed to that experience. But once you expose them to that experience, they're like, wow, this exists, this is fun. I want to do this all the time. That's it. So once you just give them that experience, they love it. They see that it's a great why have you been hiding this from me? I remember talking to one of the kids at my kids school. They were there to pick up her sister and while they were waiting outside with me and her dad, she was like, I can't wait for summertime. And I was like, Why? She said, Because I want ice cream and I go to the park. All right, I can't fault you on that. You got a point. Ice cream. I eat all the ice cream I can eat. I'm like, okay, well, you might have to start exercising then. You are doing good. The point is that's why for myself, I'm a big advocate of funding of after school programs.

Beatriz Nour [00:44:04]:


Raphael Harry [00:44:05]:

Just give the kids the opportunity, put them out there. Because at the end of the day, it's the kids from the poorer neighborhoods that get denied all those opportunities. And if you only put a screen in front of them, then that's where they will have they will see the phone in. But when I do volunteering, some of the groups that do volunteering with and we go to work at the bigger parks in New York City here, and we'll meet teenagers. I've seen teenagers show up with Jordans. They don't know what to wear to come to events. Where you get Daddy? We put it in the flyer. Don't wear wear what you like to get daddy in. But they've never been to events like this. So at first you see them, they're like, oh, I don't want to step here. I'm trying to avoid stepping. But they start watching their mates having a great time, like, wow, I'm allowed to make decisions like, what am I going to do with this wood? Like, hey, you decide how we are going to design this. We'll tell you this is what we want to make. We want to make some benches, we want to paint. But we'll put the kids in charge. We are here to supervise you. That's it. But you decide how the project goes. And the teenagers are like, what? They start getting excited, so now they're the one who's like, well, I'm wearing nice shoes, I want to take part two. And then they jump in. They don't mind if their shoes getting dirty. Give the kids they just want the opportunity. So screen time cannot compete with that. It can't. So, yeah, sorry to go on that tangent.

Beatriz Nour [00:45:41]:

No, you're the one with the kids, so you know better than me. But that's reassuring. Kids are asking to go to the park. It's better than asking to watch some Netflix, you know what I mean?

Raphael Harry [00:45:57]:

Netflix has animal shows, too. I ain't going to laugh. Oh, man, I need to do more. So back to you. Nobody wants to hear about me and my preaching anyway.

Beatriz Nour [00:46:12]:

No, that's not true. It is your platform.

Raphael Harry [00:46:15]:

You're the guest, you're the star. It's not about me. If it was about me, they'll be on my Patreon, hearing me around with Ashwin, too. I'm not the only person on Patreon now. You moved around a little bit. Well, you've moved around a few places in life and that means you got to be the outsider. Even in places that would have counted as your home. What was that feeling like? For you? I don't know, how would I put this? If you could identify being feeling like an outsider even when you were a kid, does that question make sense?

Beatriz Nour [00:47:07]:


Raphael Harry [00:47:07]:

How did that feel to you?

Beatriz Nour [00:47:11]:

Like an outsider?

Raphael Harry [00:47:12]:

No, I set myself up there.

Beatriz Nour [00:47:19]:

To be honest, I don't think I've ever really felt the feeling of being at home. And I think it's something that people who are mixed and have moved around a little, I think it's a very common feeling. I wonder how you feel about it as well. My first home was France, but I was too young to really form memories by the time I left. Like, I have very few memories from when I was three. But in Egypt, I guess I always knew we were a bit different as a family, but I never really had the words for it. And also I don't think my parents had the words for it. And I moved away from Egypt, so I lived in Egypt 17 years. I was pretty much raised in Egypt, with France and Brazil always being the kind of go to summer places, because my parents always maintained a very strong connection to France. I think my parents, for their different reasons, had a bit of a reject of their own cultures. And despite actually moving to Egypt, most people think, like, Middle Easterners will have very big families. But the majority of my dad's family had moved away from Egypt. There was my father's Coptic, his family's Coptic, and at some point there was a very big exit for Coptics from Egypt. So there's a Coptic diaspora in different places in the world. And so when we moved back, I didn't really grow up with any extended family. So I think that didn't help with the integration of things, especially that the family we did have in Egypt was my Brazilian grandma, who's definitely not, like, assimilated into Egyptian culture. So, yeah, it was an interesting I've always felt like an outsider, I guess, and in Egypt it was very obvious. I mean, the funny thing is, in my respective countries, in Egypt and Brazil, I look like I can fit into either seamlessly, but then my name stands out in Egypt, very much so. And in Brazil, my last name stands out. Nude is not a common name, last name there. But in Egypt, that was a much bigger thing, I think. I moved to France. I moved back to France when I was 20 and I thought I would fit right in and I didn't because despite speaking the language, and it is my first language, and I had a French first name, Beatrice. I don't look French, so that was very commonly pointed out to me.

Raphael Harry [00:50:28]:

Hi, everyone. If you're new to the podcast or a returning listener and you enjoy what we are doing here, did you know that you could enjoy more of our content and also support our work via Patreon for as little as $3 per month. You get access to loads of bonus content that you'll find nowhere and be the first to latest news. Don't miss out. Go to Patreon.com White Labelamericanpod or just search for White Labelamerican podcast on Patreon. P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Sorry, but when you say you don't look French. Because when Trevor Noah made that joke about when France won the World Cup and said, thank Africa. And the French, who was that ambassador to the United States, got mad and wrote that letter? Chastising. Trevor noah the team looked French and all that. You should look French. What is looking French? What is that, to look French?

Beatriz Nour [00:51:42]:

I guess the better wording of that is I don't look white. I'm not white. I think that's the more accurate wording. France has people from everywhere. A lot of the places that the French colonized, a lot of people went to France after. So France is very diverse, but there's definitely a hierarchy to how people are treated. The wider you are, the better you're treated. That's just a reality, I don't think, just of France, but, yeah, I'm not French. First of all, despite being born there, the law actually changed only four years before I was born. So unlike the US and Canada, when if you're born there, you get the nationality. France kind of got rid of that law. It's called Ludo Gizar. Just before I was born. So, yeah, I don't have that. Growing up, actually, I thought I was French because we spoke French at home and French culture very much influenced our upbringing and we weren't. So it was a bit confusing for me. But when I moved back to France and I thought I was going to like, oh, fit right in French name, I speak the language. I was leaving the kind of like American academic system to study in French, which was very tough. I don't recommend that, but I think it was a shock to me that was like, oh, wow, this is not as easy and seamless as I thought it would be. And the French can be very racist as well. I love France. It will always have a very special place to me. But that's just the reality of France, not just for me. I have a lot of friends that I made in France that ironically, most of them are not white French, and they have also struggled a lot with colorism. And if you have a name that doesn't sound white French, it's also you're faced with random checks. It's interesting. I lived in France through the it was the period I lived there. I went back and lived five years there. And it happened to be the period of time through most of the kind of like terrorist attacks that happened in France at the time. The Charlie Du and then the PETA Glon, one of them was down the street from my house and I definitely noticed, like it was actually unlike what I imagined it would be in the sense that young people stood up for I saw people stand up for Arabs, which was very shocking to me. I didn't expect that at all. Obviously I also saw other people bashing Arabs, but I did see young people standing up for Arabs and kind of really coming together as a result of these events. And that was very pleasant and unexpected to see. I think I lost the question a little, feeling like an outsider.

Raphael Harry [00:55:26]:

Your experience all counts to the outside. Being treated like an outsider, even though you should count as French I don't know, it's understandable. I won't say understand. It's relatable in some ways to those who we consider DACA recipients here were born here to undocumented parents. So they are not dreamers. Yeah, the dreamers and you know, but the only difference is that they are still for the most part, most people around them consider them Americans, but they just don't have the legal paperwork. But I don't think that many people say they are not Americans and they consider themselves Americans and I consider them Americans. And on this podcast, we don't believe anyone is undocumented. So that's my personal stance too. But it's good to hear the experience from someone who's been through it because people it's easy to just look from the outside and say, oh, everything is just like this, like that. So that when there are certain beliefs that I have. So when I say them, when people are like, oh man, you're too harsh, I'm like, you don't know why I carry such beliefs, but it's not about me. So we'll stick to you. That's the question I was going to ask you, but you can go ahead if you have something to add.

Beatriz Nour [00:57:12]:

I think our personal experiences will definitely inevitably shape our views on these things. But there's good and bad in every country and that was definitely the case when I moved back to France as an adult, where I can experience France more consciously and I remember a lot more of it. But then I moved to Dubai, to the United Arab Emirates, and here the way that the country is, it's very interesting because there's a very large percentage of expats and the majority of people here are expats, actually. So I think here is the first place where and I still live here, it's the first place where I don't feel like an outsider. And I think it's because we are all outsiders. People don't immigrate to the UAE, people are expats here. They're here for a job. And it's a blend of so many like there's so many different nationalities here, so many different religions. And it's the first place where I feel like I don't question being an outsider because we're all kind of like on the same we're all outsiders.

Raphael Harry [00:58:43]:

I think that's what I felt when I was in Bakrain and I think that's why I started falling in love with that place and was almost beginning to draw a map that would see me move to that part of the world. Yeah, I could just go settle there. And also, being a man didn't hurt too.

Beatriz Nour [00:59:06]:

Well. I think there's a lot of misconceptions about the Middle East and the Gulf, and the Middle East is quite different, like in different regions. But I mean, living in Dubai as a woman, I think I felt a lot more unsafe as a woman in France than I have ever felt in Dubai. Dubai is actually very safe, and as a woman, you don't face a lot of the issues you might face in other places. So I think there's a very big misconception about the Middle East. And the media doesn't help because it always portrays it in a very negative light. But there's a lot happening here and you just shouldn't believe. I think I would say most of the things you see in the media about the Middle East because I think it's always fueled by an agenda without getting political. But as a woman, I've felt very safe here and like, I've had opportunities and just safe, physically safe, because that's not something I felt in France as a woman.

Raphael Harry [01:00:15]:

I keep telling some people, but it's hard when you consume a lot of certain things and they can see. I'm like, you just have to go there and see for yourself.

Beatriz Nour [01:00:28]:

Yeah, that's the least I can tell them.

Raphael Harry [01:00:31]:

So, staying with France, one quick question. When did you realize that you weren't French or a French citizen? Was there any particular incident or situation?

Beatriz Nour [01:00:59]:

You go through immigration at the airport when you land anywhere, and you are aware of if you're a citizen, or even if you're an EU citizen, the line is different than if you're not. I mean, this is the same everywhere. Even you land in the States as an American immigration process is very different than if you are a foreigner, especially if you're Arab. You always get these random checks and stuff. So random. But traveling is a very big reminder of, like, you belong to this country, you know, no matter how you feel. But on paper, you belong to this country. And I think because we grew up in a very French speaking, culturally influenced household, it was always very confusing because we would go to France every year, and my parents have always had a place there. But it was like, but you're not French. And don't forget, it not from them. They would never say that to us. Actually, my father today is naturalized. He's French as well. As well, he is French today. My father, in the sense that he has the citizenship, he has the passport, but I don't. And we didn't as his children. And I think as a teenager, I probably realized I'm not French because as a child, I guess maybe you don't question these things so much as a child. But being in school and everyone has these references that I don't have cultural references. I'm not part of the majority religion. In Egypt, the majority religion is Islam. It's Muslims. And we have different celebrations and we do things a little differently. So that was always there. But I don't think there were a lot of kids, especially because I went to an international American school, there weren't a lot of French speaking people, and it was like, okay, but it was just confusing. I think it was as a teenager when I realized there was no particular incident I can think of, but there was a realization of, like, oh, wait, I'm not French. I'm heavily French influenced, but I'm not French. And when I lived in France, I actually had the opportunity not the opportunity, but I had the option, I guess, of staying a little longer and then applying for citizenship. But to be honest with you, as an adult, like, moving back there, I studied and I worked there, and I couldn't wait to leave by the end of it, keeping in mind as well, I was living there during difficult times for France as a country, going through a lot of tension and changes. But, yeah, the reality is I couldn't wait to leave. I still love France, I still love Paris. But, yeah, I was kind of, like, ready for the next adventure, let's put it that way.

Raphael Harry [01:04:22]:

Like I said, it's relatable. So let's step away from your personal journey. But it's still part of your personal journey, but let's go to your creative journey. Now. You decided to take your life experiences and take it up a notch and start sharing with the world, but not just sharing with the world, but also looking for fellow travelers on this journey and using it to do something much bigger than just yourself. And that was how I believe that played a role in you getting to a podcast. But I don't think I did a good job in getting there to the podcast. But how did you come up with the title of your podcast? I love that title. That's just like, shed skis to the title. So how did you come up with the title of your podcast, and what is the full inspiration of you coming up with? What's the full inspiration behind you starting that podcast?

Beatriz Nour [01:05:38]:

I think you did a good job capturing it, actually, because the driving force, let's say not the inspiration, but the driving force behind it was like, you know what I'm confused about? Who the hell am I in terms of these different religions and these cultures that I grew up in and these languages? And I'm like, you know what? I know I'm not the only one. I know I'm not the only one, because so many people around me are also maybe struggling is not the right word. I mean, you have periods of struggling with your identity but have complicated complex identities. And I just thought like, you know what, I would love to actually record some of these conversations that I get to have with friends. That's kind of where the idea started. In between ish as a name I think came about because the ish is something just as a suffix, it's something that I've always related to because I've always felt like I am Brazilian, Egyptian, born in France. And I've always felt the ish is like how I relate most to my countries and my cultures because there's a lot of things that culturally that I'm not aware of when it comes to both my cultures, Brazilian and Egyptian. And I felt like ish was a very good captures that really well and I have a lot of friends around me that also are different versions of it. And so I felt like in between ish kind of represents that in a not taking itself too seriously and not because I don't want to define what the ish is, but it's in between different things and for in between ish originally I wanted to start a podcast years ago. I love podcasts. I listen to a lot of different podcasts on different topics. And I wanted to start a podcast about third culture kids. I came across this term third culture kids, which I thought I was when I was in France, when I was at university, I was working on a project and I came across this term. The project had nothing to do with cultural influences, but it was a furniture product that I was designing, okay? And I had to interview certain people and the common thing between them was this ish. We were all kind of like different grew up in a place where we weren't from or amongst different religions or these different things. So came across the term years later, it was still on my mind like, I want to do something about this. And then when I sat down to work on the podcast, eventually I was like, you know what, third culture kids is a bit I felt like maybe I should explain what it is. Third culture kid by definition means someone who grew up in a culture that is different to the culture of their parents. And the assumption here is that the parents come from the same cultures, from the same culture, one culture. So you are between your parents culture and the cultures that you grew up in and so therefore you are this third culture and accumulation of these different cultures, your parents and the countries you've lived in. And I was like, you know what? But there are different kind of cultural experiences that maybe aren't about living in different cultures. Maybe it's being of mixed race. Like me for example, brazilian, Egyptian, they're two different people, like completely. They're also very diverse people. There's also their culture kids is usually associated to or used in the context associated to children of diplomatic kids, for example. So parents who work in foreign diplomacy, and they work at the embassy of a certain country, and so they have kids that grow up there, but they're of this other culture. And so the culture that you speak and you have at home is very different than the culture that you practice outside of the house is very different than the culture that you are maybe schooled in and study in, and not just in the context of diplomatic kids, but also kids that have had to move around because of their parents jobs. For example, if you work in a big corporation and they have offices, like, you know, all over the world, and they're like, okay, well, now we're going to place you here. And then there's also kids whose parents go on missions abroad to kind of, like, preach Christianity.

Raphael Harry [01:10:59]:


Beatriz Nour [01:11:00]:

Yeah, exactly. And then there's also I don't like this term, but they're called military brats who have had to move around. Again, it's usually tied to the parents profession. And third culture kids is just one of many different kind of experiences that you can have of different cultures as a child. And so I was doing some research, and I came across this more inclusive term I thought called cross cultural kids. And it was a term put together by it is an American sociologist, and it's Ruth Van Reckon. And basically, cross cultural kids includes third culture kids, but it also includes children who have been internationally adopted. It also includes children of immigrants because the immigrant experience is very different than the third culture kid experience. As a third culture kid, you're usually an expat in a country. As an immigrant, you're trying to assimilate into a new culture, and eventually the idea is to get a citizenship in the country, to have belonging in that country. Right. There's also children of refugees. There's different categories within cross cultural kids, but these are all the different experiences that you can have across different cultures. And there's an emphasis on kids because the way that you experience a culture as a child is very different than when you experience it as an adult. When you move as an adult, you have agency over. You know what? I like the part of this culture, and I'm going to integrate myself into this and try to understand more, and I want to make friends here. But as a child, first of all, you don't have the choice of moving to a country very often. It's just like, well, parents decided, got to go, got to follow. And the experience of being educated and even like, when you learn languages as a child, it's very different than when you learn languages as an adult. So there's a lot of emphasis on kids because when you experience different cultures as a child, it's just very different. And by child here, I don't. Mean, from when you're born until you're a teenager. Basically, your developmental years are very formative years. So, yeah, that's where the idea for In Betweeners came from. I really wanted to capture stories of people who were exposed to different cultures, to different religions, to different languages, to different ethnicities during their developmental years. I speak to adults, not children, on the podcast, but it would be interesting to do an episode with children at some point who are actually experiencing this live and not, like, reflecting on it as an adult. But yeah, it's funny because I think you probably have this experience too, with white label American. When I meet someone who's cross cultural, there's an immediate connection. It doesn't matter if they're not Brazilian Egyptian. Usually they're not Brazilian Egyptian, there aren't a ton lying around. But you immediately have this connection of, like, I know your brain gets confused between different languages. I know you struggle with certain things like your love for food that you were explaining in the beginning. I think that's very reflective of your different cultural influences. So there's common experiences, no matter what the cultures that you're exposed to are, but there's common experiences to being cross cultural. And those are the stories I kind of want to capture because I think it could be very someone from the outside looking in can be like, oh, well, that seems great. Like, you're exposed to all these different things, you speak different languages. What do you have to complain about? But there's a lot of identity crisis that comes with this. You asked me about feeling like an outsider. I've never felt like I belonged anywhere. So my whole life has been a series of feeling like an outsider. And that's okay, actually, because I've met other outsiders everywhere I go. Those are the people I connect with the most. In between is essentially about bringing these confused people together. And I like to say this on the podcast, I very much welcome confusion. I think it's just a part of life when you are cross cultural and, yeah, let's just sit down and have a conversation about your childhood trauma. No, it's not your childhood trauma, but yeah, let's talk about your experiences. Let's hash it out.

Raphael Harry [01:15:53]:

Thank you for that, listeners. If you weren't convinced, let me tell you, go listen to In Between. Ish it's worth your time? Trust me, it's a great podcast. I love it. And if you have any experience to share, feel free to share with us. Go hit our contact button. There's also the microphone there. Leave an audio recording. Two minutes, you can leave as many recordings, but if you want to talk longer than two minutes, it will cut you off. I don't control I mean, I technically can't control it, but I just want to leave your message in two minutes so I could talk to you all day. But yeah, we have to start wrapping this up. Has been lovely. We'll definitely have to have a part two. We'll talk about shawamas and more.

Beatriz Nour [01:16:43]:

Can I just say something about that? Because as a Brazilian, because meat is very big in Brazil, like shohascaria and that culture, and it's also quite big in the Middle East. I'm actually vegetarian. I've been vegetarian for such a long time. And one of the questions I get a lot when I tell people I'm Brazilian Egyptian, it's like, oh, you must know all the good shohascaria is like the meat places. And I'm like, Actually, no, I hate to disappoint you, but no, I don't. People legitimately turn around and like, you're not a real Brazilian.

Raphael Harry [01:17:25]:

I can imagine that reaction in Middle East, because I know Brazilian restaurants are quite big over there, too. But since we are already talking food, let's just dive straight into it. So you've already told us you're vegetarian, and when it comes to cuisine, what is your favorite go to cuisine? You've lived in a couple of places. Yeah. So vegetarians does not mean they don't have good food, does not mean that I have food as delicious. So where does your favorite vegetarian cuisine come from? And your number one go to cuisine is what, betray one place. Now.

Beatriz Nour [01:18:19]:

I don't know if this will surprise you or not, but Ethiopian cuisine is just the best, in my opinion.

Raphael Harry [01:18:25]:

Vegetarian, too. Man, Ethiopians stay winning. Yeah, they're still winning with everybody.

Beatriz Nour [01:18:31]:

They have amazing food, honestly.

Raphael Harry [01:18:33]:

All right, Egyptians, Brazilian, start writing your complaint right now. They also have amazing email forward. I will give you write your petition. She's not real, I'm telling you. Yes, I agree with you guys. She's not real.

Beatriz Nour [01:18:49]:

It's funny. No. I do love Egyptian food. Honestly. It's one of the things I love about Egyptian culture. I have a bone to pick sometimes with certain elements of my cultures, but Egyptian food doesn't well, yeah, I know, right? As well as Brazilian food I find amazing. But in terms of my favorite cuisine, I have to hand it to Ethiopians. They know their vegetables and their spices, and it's really good. But yeah, Egyptian food is amazing. Right now. It's Ramadan. Yeah, I don't practice Ramadan, but the way we do it in our household is we make it an Egyptian cultural month, meaning we watch lots of Egyptian TV shows. Egyptian TV novellas are very common, and a lot of them come out during the Ramadan season. So, yeah, it's kind of like our Egyptian culture month. We try to eat more Egyptian food. We listen to a lot of Egyptian Arabic music in general, and then I find myself speaking Arabic more just because we focus more on it this month. And Egyptian food is amazing. Some of it is definitely an acquired taste, I will say that. But it's really good, honestly, as well as Brazilian food.

Raphael Harry [01:20:17]:

You have to send me some Egyptian telenovelas later on. Send me on our usual channel. Send me some recommendations. Yeah, maybe I'll add one of them to my patreon discussions. My friend Ashwin.

Beatriz Nour [01:20:34]:

Oh, that would be great.

Raphael Harry [01:20:35]:

You love to break down. Maybe I'll give Ashrin one that will explode his brain. Because if you listen to our breakdowns of The Last of US, you know why I'm trying to get Ashwin to break down something like Egyptian. And he's going to be like, no. Yeah, you're going to watch this. Everyone who's been on this podcast is considered a dancer. If you claim you don't dance, we stop recording and kick you out of the show right now. So it's too late for you to claim you don't dance. You're already on the podcast. You've recorded with us for over an hour. So, yeah, we know you dance. You can't deny it. You have French, you have a sprinkle of French in you. You have Egyptian. You have Brazilian. All those places, they dance. Come on. It's too late. So when it comes to music, we need you to give us at least three artists that can keep you dancing for at least an hour. Now, there's a catch.

Beatriz Nour [01:21:34]:

There's a catch.

Raphael Harry [01:21:36]:

We know France. France. Let me see France. They got some good artists there that are on my playlist. Stromay. Stromay. Stromay.

Beatriz Nour [01:21:47]:

He's not French, though he is Belgium, but he does sing in French.

Raphael Harry [01:21:51]:

But just in case you're going to name Stromay, he's out. You can't put him on your list.

Beatriz Nour [01:21:55]:

Oh, he's out. Okay, got it.

Raphael Harry [01:21:56]:

That's the point. You can name the most popular artists, like Rihanna. You can name the Beyonce, you can't name any Afro beat. Yeah, okay, you're allowed. Now you can give us one from Brazil, you can give us one from Egypt, you can give us one from France, or you can give us one from your current base, dubai. We'll take that. I don't know anybody from who sings in Dubai. Dubai. So there's much money there, so there might not be any need for somebody to be singing there. I don't know.

Beatriz Nour [01:22:24]:

Oh, no. They definitely love their music, too.

Raphael Harry [01:22:27]:

They might be having musicians from other places come sing there. That's the point. So give us at least three artists that can keep you dancing for an hour.

Beatriz Nour [01:22:39]:

So I'm very much a music person. I think music is my love language. And in terms of dancing, well, Brazilian would have to be Kawoma, I think. Also, most of the world knows Lombardo and the song Lombardo, and Kawoma is the group that's if you want to dance, but in terms of an artist, I would recommend and there's dancing and there's not dancing, it's Lagoon. So it's L-A-G-U-M but pronounced lagoon. And I actually have a Brazilian music is like my go to, I think, on any bad day, because it'll always put me in a good mood.

Raphael Harry [01:23:30]:

I can see that.

Beatriz Nour [01:23:31]:

Yeah. It's very lively and it's upbeat, even if it's a sad song. It's expressed in such a beautiful way. And to be honest with you, I wonder how you feel about this in terms of your languages. But I feel like English is a great language to communicate in, but when it comes to expressing emotions and it comes to expressing desire and it comes to expressing, I don't know, the more complicated things in life, I think. I have to hand it to the Portuguese as well as the Arabic language. And I'm biased, of course I'm biased, but I think they have a different way of expressing things that is much more soulful, humane, I don't know what the word is.

Raphael Harry [01:24:22]:

My favorite football commentators when it comes to shouting goal, when the goal is scored, you got to be Arabic, man.

Beatriz Nour [01:24:33]:

I heard that a lot.

Raphael Harry [01:24:36]:

Nobody beats that, man. Two minutes later, the goal has been scored. I got this even it's against your team. They're like, man, it's too sweet, man. I'm enjoying it. I'm happy too.

Beatriz Nour [01:24:58]:

Yeah, I've heard this so often. It's true.

Raphael Harry [01:25:02]:

That's how, you know, the expression of the language is so sweet. I'm angry they scored against me. But there's something about the way this language lands. It's just like yeah, you start smiling, everybody's just like, this is so funny, man. Share that video again.

Beatriz Nour [01:25:23]:

No, I agree with you, but I.

Raphael Harry [01:25:26]:

Do have a lot of Arabic songs on my playlist.

Beatriz Nour [01:25:29]:

Yeah. So for Arabic, I would say Ahmed. I think he represents Egyptian. He's Egyptian? Yeah, he represents Egyptian music quite well. I think you have to send and.

Raphael Harry [01:25:45]:

Then spelling of his name.

Beatriz Nour [01:25:48]:

I'll send you the spelling. There's a specific song that I think anyone who listens to this song will probably like. It it's not his song, actually, it's Talada it which means three beats like Beat of your heart and it's a very it's a very catchy song, I think. Like, it was a huge success, like all over and and yeah, I think if anyone needs an introduction to Arabic music, it's it's a nice it's a nice introduction. But Amadeb, as an artist, I think is your go to artist for Egyptian OG music and then French, I would say so. Likes Tomai. This person is not actually French, but Belgium, but sings in French. It's angel spelled it's angel basically, but in French. So angel-like in English but with an extra E. I might know that person. Ojali, yeah, she's been on what is it? Color, you know, like the color studio. They feature, like, cool up-and-coming artists and yeah, she's been on there, so I really like her stuff.

Raphael Harry [01:27:05]:

I wouldn't be surprised if she's on my playlist already.

Beatriz Nour [01:27:08]:

Yeah, she's great, honestly. Highly recommend. Likes Tomaishi. Also, like, some of her songs are kind of like a social commentary and I really appreciate that. She's very talented.

Raphael Harry [01:27:25]:

Oh, cool. My daughter already knows Stromay songs. Maybe too young for you, but it's good music. You got to know it.

Beatriz Nour [01:27:35]:

It is good music.

Raphael Harry [01:27:36]:

Yeah, I know it. You got to know it. There you go. Two of his songs. So before I ask you the final question, you mentioned something earlier that I was like, oh, I got to come back to this. So you said you're a Disney fan because you love Disney movies. So I was just curious, what's your favorite Disney movie? We can name two if you want. Since I like you, I'll let you have more than one.

Beatriz Nour [01:28:15]:

It's not that I'm a Disney kid.

Raphael Harry [01:28:18]:

I grew up watching Disney fans myself. I'm not a Star Wars guy. I denied it for long. But I'm watching Mandalorian. I'm going to watch new stuff coming. But Andor is still my favorite because that's really adult stuff. Yeah, but Marvel Marvel can't take me away from Marvel. There's no divorce happening. No.

Beatriz Nour [01:28:46]:

Marvel is great as well. I just didn't grow up with it. But yeah, it is great. And they've been upping their game, I think. Yeah, absolutely. More diversity, which is good. Disney fever. Disney. This is so cliche. But The Lion King, I think, is I'm not like a girly girl princess type of thing. So for me, it's always like, I love a portrayal of animals. So the Lion King is perfect. I think all my favorite Disney movies are about the animal kingdom rather than human stories. So yeah, I think that's a great one. And then another recent one, I was very pleasantly surprised. I think Disney has peaked in the 90s, but I think Encanto that came out like that. That was really good.

Raphael Harry [01:29:43]:

I've watched that too many times.

Beatriz Nour [01:29:46]:

I'm sure your daughter is like daddy. Daddy. Khan.

Raphael Harry [01:29:49]:

I don't know. What's the one with the toning red? Did you watch that?

Beatriz Nour [01:29:58]:


Raphael Harry [01:29:59]:

What's that one where the girl changes into the panda?

Beatriz Nour [01:30:04]:

I haven't seen it, but it's on my list. Is that a Disney movie?

Raphael Harry [01:30:07]:

Yeah, it is. It was only released on the streaming. I thought that should have gone.

Beatriz Nour [01:30:13]:

You know how I came across that? Because recently sorry, it was, like, recently released last year. Last year, okay. I actually came across that movie because I was looking for movies or documentaries that kind of, like, portray the third culture or cross cultural experience. And that movie came up for kids. It breaks down this kind of concept of existing across different cultures. But I haven't seen it yet. But it is on my list.

Raphael Harry [01:30:49]:

It does a good job. I don't know if kids will get it because if you and I watch it, you see something else. Madra loves it. It introduces kids to the 90s because the music, everything is in the boy band. All that is 90s. But it's a totally different movie for adults. And I was like, they did this? Wow. Okay.

Beatriz Nour [01:31:16]:

That's the thing, though. When you watch these, whether it's Disney or Pixar movies, as an adult, it's so different.

Raphael Harry [01:31:22]:

I recently rewatched I'll be almost crying.

Beatriz Nour [01:31:24]:

And I'm like, yeah, that's why I'm.

Raphael Harry [01:31:26]:

Like, I don't want to watch all this. Make me a cry. All it's not enough. How many times I got well, I mean.

Beatriz Nour [01:31:34]:

There'S a lot of jokes in there that are for adults sometimes, and kids are not meant to understand those. Like, I recently, recently rewatched Trek, and I was like, oh, my goodness. That's a lot of interesting innuendo there. So I think when you rewatch some of these movies as an adult, you're like, yeah, that's a lot of messaging in there. But it's cool. I think they probably keep in mind that it's not just kids who are watching it. It's kids dragging their adult parents to watch it. So it's good to have a little something in there for them as well.

Raphael Harry [01:32:09]:

Last thing on Disney I try to show my daughter Lion King. She watches for, like, five minutes. Like, turn it off.

Beatriz Nour [01:32:17]:


Raphael Harry [01:32:17]:

Watch this.

Beatriz Nour [01:32:18]:

Oh, no.

Raphael Harry [01:32:19]:

Watch Moana a thousand times. Watched Tony red. As soon as it came out, it came out of, like, new movie we watched the whole weekend. I was like, Leave, man, I love the movie. But as soon as the ends played again, I'm like, man, let's know how the weekend was supposed to go. But back to back to back to back to back to back the whole weekend, I was like, you know what? I need to start a new channel where I'll be like, the women are forcing men not having the men are losing their rights. This how the villain is born. Stories of a villain.

Beatriz Nour [01:33:00]:

Oh, no. But I'm so surprised to hear that she didn't like The Lion King.

Raphael Harry [01:33:04]:

Yeah, I was surprised, too. She was just like, no, I'm not watching this. But she's watched everything from the little girl in Hawaii with the alien.

Beatriz Nour [01:33:16]:

Lilo and stitch.

Raphael Harry [01:33:17]:

Yeah. Lilo and stitch. She watched the whole series. One point in time. And then the older she got, we tried to watch one. It's like, turn it off. I said, God. Okay. Well, she's watched Shira, which is way old. Too old for her. But we've completed the whole series. I'm like, oh, this show is really good. I'm the one watching it now. I'm like, oh, this show is really good. She picks up shows like that. This shows really good. I want to dress up like Shera for Halloween. And then next time I'm like, you just pick one costume. I can't I can't keep up with all the heroes. I'm like, Maybe I should have just talked to introducing you to maybe I should have just introduced one princess. I did too much. Now introduced to like, 5000 too much. But yeah, they're doing a good job, the old representation and the stories. But Tony Red was really good. That's a really good one. I've gotten the newer ones that came out, but they've had some good ones. But that movie should definitely be on your list for the project you're trying to do?

Beatriz Nour [01:34:24]:

Yeah, it is. Actually. I launched the newsletter earlier this year and I have a section where I kind of recommend the trending edutainment, and it's on my list of things to watch. So if I like it, I will recommend it. But based on your recommendation, I should definitely move it up the list and watch it very soon. But, yeah, I think it's cool that kids movies are addressing some of these topics. I think. Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Raphael Harry [01:35:00]:

So let's bring it to an end here. Can't thank you enough for giving me your time and sharing your day or your evening over there with us.

Beatriz Nour [01:35:10]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [01:35:11]:

To final question. What would you like to leave the audience with? It's your freestyle moment. You go ahead and yeah, no pressure. Up to you. No pressure. One of those questions. I just try to guess.

Beatriz Nour [01:35:29]:

I don't know if I have any words of wisdom. I mean, I think I think when it comes to these topics of topics you're addressing on White Label American and topics that I also cover on in between ish, I think the I think more dialogue around these things. Is very important because mostly to kind of realize you're not alone. And you can share the good and the bad of these experiences because there is good and bad. And I think above all is, I think, something that we all millennials and all generations are struggling with. But it's okay to be confused. There's no blueprint for any of this. So, yeah, I think that's what I would say. This is a terrible wrap-up. But, yeah, that's what I would say. It's okay to be confused because that's just life.

Raphael Harry [01:36:38]:

It's not a terrible wrap up, trust me. And yes, it's okay to be confused. I think that too many of us grow up thinking that we must all have the answers, otherwise we're doing bad. And that's why our platforms exist, to show that it's okay to be confused and it's okay to not have all the answers. And we're on a journey to figure things out. It's okay to not figure it out all out in one day. It's not the end of the world.

Beatriz Nour [01:37:12]:


Raphael Harry [01:37:13]:

But you can keep moving.

Beatriz Nour [01:37:14]:

I think one of the things that I mentioned my grandma a little bit during this interview, but my grandma played a very big role in my life and we were very close. And I think when I was in my mid twenty s, I was sitting on her bed crying, and I'm like, oh, I'm so confused. And I'm almost 25 and shouldn't I know what I want to do with my life? And my grandma's exactly 50 years older than me. And so she turns to me and says, honey, I'm almost 75 and I'm still confused, and I don't know what I'm doing with my life. You don't have to figure anything out. Like confusion is just a part of life. And I don't think I realized the wisdom in her words at the time. But it's definitely something that I very strongly hold onto and believe now. It's like, yeah, it's just a part of it. You got to live with it. And we all go through it. I truly do believe that. Even people who portray that, they have all their shit together, it's a lot of times upfront. And there's nothing wrong with not knowing things. Yeah, I guess my grandma's words, that's just part of life.

Raphael Harry [01:38:30]:

Confusion, grandma wisdom there. Shout out to your grandma. So please let the audience know where they can find you and your awesome work.

Beatriz Nour [01:38:41]:

So my podcast is in between us. You can find it on any platform in Between US without any dashes, spelled exactly what it sounds like. And we also have a website, www. Dot Inbetweenish. Net. And yeah, I have a newsletter. We also have a blog associated to In Between, but a newsletter. It's called the Quest. And basically every month I give you a series of things and you kind of like, go on a quest to discover your own cultural identity in a sense, exploring your confusion, basically. And, yeah, that's where you can find me. That's where I'm at.

Raphael Harry [01:39:26]:

Awesome. So, once again, Banner Duncan Shokran. I forgot the one from the Gambia. I need to go. I'll write them down now. That's from Mali, and I've gotten a whole bunch of thank yous. Write them down.

Beatriz Nour [01:39:49]:

Well, let me add merci to you.

Raphael Harry [01:39:52]:

I know that one that was pretty easy. But I try to drop French. I'm like, yeah, I try to be sophisticated with other people. And what's Japanese? Nagatomo, is it? No, Japanese. I watch a lot of anime, so I should know that easily. I was going to feel my name right there. I can't feel my name. Community.

Beatriz Nour [01:40:22]:

Well, I'll also add obrigado.

Raphael Harry [01:40:24]:

Obrigado. Yeah. I know that Ronaldo de Lima is my boy. Yeah. But anyway, we appreciate you keep doing awesome. And yeah, we love your work. And everyone listening, please don't forget to check out In Between ish and keep supporting us all indie podcasters. We need your love. We need your support in showing love. And we'll see you next week with another episode. Thank you for the privilege of your company. Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoyed the show, please give a five-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, donations, episodes, feedback, guests, match, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play store and Apple coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company.

Beatriz NourProfile Photo

Beatriz Nour

CEO/ Educator/Podcaster/

Beatriz is a passionate podcast enthusiast who has created her own show called the Inbetweenish Pod. Her podcast explores themes of belonging and tackles the challenges of living in between various countries, cultures, ethnicities, and faiths. With her own Brazilian, Egyptian, and French-ish background, Beatriz understands the struggle of finding a true sense of home. Stay up-to-date with her latest episodes by signing up for her newsletter at https://inbetweenish.ck.page/4d306f7a58.