157: Progress & Disappointment: Social Media’s Influence on Nigerian Politics ft Amaka Abara & Jennifer-Ann Stodel

Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to White Label american Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold in depth interviews with interesting people that are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls one story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us.

Amaka Abara [00:00:24]:

You.

Raphael Harry [00:00:47]:

Welcome. To another episode of White Label American. Thank you all for joining us today. I am your host, Raphael Harry, and I have two distinguished and wonderful women who are amongst my favorite women in the studio today. One is visiting New York for the first time and the other as a second time. But we'll treat it as first time because it's the first time in the studio for both of them. So they were both on episode 87. So if you want to get the full gist about their origins and why they are amongst my favorite women, please check the episode out and then come back. Or you can check this episode out first and then go to episode 87. With that being said, will you all introduce yourselves?

Amaka Abara [00:01:33]:

Hi, my name is Amaka.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:01:37]:

My name is Jennifer. Hello, thanks for having us again.

Amaka Abara [00:01:40]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [00:01:41]:

Welcome. Pleasure of mine. I'm glad to have you all here. So, how you're doing? How's New York treating you?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:01:51]:

Do you want the honest version of I think that will be a story for another day. But so far we're enjoying the weather. The weather has been lovely and it's been nice seeing different things. It's good and bad.

Raphael Harry [00:02:10]:

Why you said different things.

Amaka Abara [00:02:12]:

For example, I think we have, like, had weird experiences with Don to be very particular about being some people. We realized that obviously we've come from a very polite society, so we kind of sort of expected the same. For example, when mistakenly you hit someone or you brush someone as you're saying sorry, the person at the same time is saying to you, okay, it's fine. Because obviously you are in a small space and for example, in the Metro, in the train, it's loads and loads of people. And then we've got bags. And then you can mistakenly brush someone and they're like, excuse me, it's so aggressive.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:02:56]:

Okay, no, that's just one particular episode. I think when we first came here, when Jamaka first came, well, she had these high expectations. Okay, let me just be blunt. African American people, okay, because you hear the stereotypes about them and you think, oh, that's just people. They don't understand them. But since we've been in the US, every negative experience we've had has been with African American people. And I said to Chamaka, maybe it's a New York African American people. When we're going to California, we'll see what they're like. So let's not paint everyone with the same brush from the airports when we landed. It's been our experience in New York. It's been not just our experience, but also experience of us witnessing other people with them and also witnessing our experience with other races, latina races, the white. We've had a completely different experience with every single we've had some people who are from a different race literally walk us all the way to the station to help us. We didn't ask them and say, yeah, we'll just help you. But I don't know. Like I said, story for another day. That's not why we're here.

Raphael Harry [00:04:19]:

We got a little bit serious at the beginning, but I would say like at airport, many people always have tales at the airport. And I know of someone who I consider a friend who came to the city not for the first time, but it was like first time after the pandemic. And there's always stills from the airport. He's black, by the way, from Southern State. So when he arrived at the airport, took a taxi, he knew he got got because the taxi driver was delaying, taking longer routes and all that. So that's part of being God. But sometimes they read you. I don't think it's only limited to African Americans, but I understand what you're saying, but I'm just tray caveat that there's this energy that New York has.

Amaka Abara [00:05:19]:

I don't know, probably if it's because of how the city obviously is hustling and bustling. Everything is busy. People need to there's not enough time or just because it's so busy. So if you are saying, like wasting time, for example, the experience at the airport is just literally we've made our order and we had bags, so we're just trying to get the things off. And the girl was like, what was that? What she said was, Excuse me, miss, or something like that. Such an aggressive and I was thinking, yeah, no, come on, you saw us. We were with bags. We cannot just literally open go in a few seconds and we're just trying to get stuff at the same time. So I was just thinking probably maybe she didn't look properly before she said move. Or it kind of like puts me off, to be honest. And I was like but to be honest in other aspects, when DC, most of the people we met were friendly, they waved at those random people waved at those and said hi to us and they were smiling and all that.

Raphael Harry [00:06:29]:

Maybe you look like celebrities.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:06:31]:

No, but this is what I'm saying. Maybe it's the New York African American. Maybe if you go to other parts of America, it's going to be a nicer experience.

Raphael Harry [00:06:39]:

Well, which parts of New York have you been to?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:06:41]:

I don't know what they're called. I forget them when I go past them.

Amaka Abara [00:06:46]:

Obviously. It's called bordet. Or even where we were within obviously mostly white people area where we went. We were in Bordet. Yeah, that's where I just mentioned, the Village and Binghamton and and now we are in the city city. And obviously we've come from New Jersey, so when we went Washington as well. It was a black area and it was a calm, actually. Really? I saw people out on the streets. It's been long, I've seen people out on the street just having to chat with the neighbors and I really wanted to walk around, but we didn't have enough time because we came late and we just had only one day to do Washington and get back to New York. So in that experience, I think maybe when you see people in their normal habitat in their home area, it's different from when you see them in the city. So everybody has something going on with them. So obviously I think if you see the people in the chilled area, they are homes or where they are with friends, or where they are just like you, like for the first time going to that place. I think it's more friendly than when you see people in official or in a walk mode. Once they're in a walk mode, I think that's the difference. Walk mode, working hours and just professional type of thing. People tend to be like short and they don't really have time. But if you see people in touristy area or in a leisurely area or at home, people tend to be nicer and more welcoming.

Raphael Harry [00:08:22]:

That's something. Okay, that's the point that I may not have considered, but yeah, I bet.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:08:31]:

You regret asking that question.

Raphael Harry [00:08:33]:

No, I don't. However, I'll just say that maybe you guys met the wrong ones or it was the day for you guys. Just all the wrong ones were out on that day. You guys were attracting the wrong ones. Well, however, maybe we'll see how when this recording is done, maybe I'll show you guys one or two places nearby and you see you might have a change of thoughts.

Amaka Abara [00:09:04]:

We're still very open minded. I'm like, no. Yes, obviously it's just like a very tiny miniscule percentage of the whole people. So we can't just say this is.

Raphael Harry [00:09:14]:

What I get it. But that's for the audience to understand where you guys are coming from. Did you guys follow so let's step away from New York for a little bit. Did you guys follow the Nigerian general elections this past February and March? And for the audience who do not know, both women were born in Nigeria.

Amaka Abara [00:09:35]:

Oh, yes, I did. Nigerian politics has always been something I've followed since I was a kid. We have a choice. Yeah, I just remember this sometimes when I look back, I was like because my mom is very big on current affairs. So I remember the very first conference I watched that was supposed to be either ANPP at the time and Okadibu was the flagship politician, I think, with Obasanjan, or they had a meeting and in the middle of the conference because you know, it's a conference where they have to vote. Who is going to be the flag bearer for the president and Vice president and all. So in the middle of that at night, I don't know what happened, whether they sidelined the Ebos. Yeah, and then he came and he said, I'm going with my Ebo brothers. So all the Ebols left the conference. I remember Tiny watching it on Nt and guess what was black and white TV at the time. This was like early 2000. And then obviously we followed it consistently to Imo state governorship election. I remember we were all invested because we didn't like the guy at the time. His name is Ojim. So what we use remembering him is when he was very strict about environmentals during his time as a governor, emo state was so clean. We had bosses and things, but people didn't really trust him because their preferred candidate obviously is like, what happened this year? He won. And then we went to bed and woke up and we had a new governor, so people didn't really like him. And then what they use in remembering him is obviously during the environmentals, his motto was so far a little enjoy forever. So I always say that to Jenny anytime, it's like suffer a little, enjoy forever. And then that was when Ruchas came. Ruchas came at the time he had his free school, so everybody was like oh my God, Ruchas is the best, blah, blah, blah. And we all mass voted or came out. So that was the very first time in a Democratic election where the sitting governor had lost. So everybody made sure, but then Rochas came and shoot everybody shaky. So now we don't really trust. So that has always been a thing for me. And then following this whole election, I'll just say very sorry, big sorry to a lot of Nigerians because we among the people that supported Boari for 2015. And we're like, no, Jonathan has to go. I'm sorry, I'm very sorry. We didn't know what we were thinking and at the time we were protesting against removal of subsidy and we used to make phone jokes. But now we're beginning to realize that Jonathan was a good person for us. His wife was politically savy, even though she wasn't educated, she's a very smart woman. And the fact that Obasanjo would hand picked Jonathan, I always consider Obasanjo as the most intelligent Nigerian president ever had because of the way he ran things, agencies, he handpicked and he picked the most intelligent people. We're looking at the likes of Akunili running NAFTA at the time, Dora what's her other name?

Raphael Harry [00:12:48]:

All the people Director General.

Amaka Abara [00:12:51]:

So all the people that we know now that did Nigeria great, most of them came from Obasanjo, directly from Obasanjo. So he's someone who sat down and say how do we pick the best brains in the country to move it forward? And obviously it was during his time that MTN and GSM and all those things came in. So now to me, I feel like if Obasanjo talks about anything. If anybody wants any political advice, just listen to Obasanjo because he's the best we've had. I hope we have a repeat. But then now with the disappointment that is going on with Peter Obianon, I remember when the initial vote started coming in, I was sitting down, but Jenny wasn't there with Jenny's last sister, she's like, we are body bodies. So we were there just watching the hotel and both of us actually started crying because we thought Ptob was going to win. And both of us were like, oh my God, if this guy wins, it means that Nigerians are ready. Everybody wants change. People are tired of corruption. Everybody just want things. So both of us were like, we're so emotional. And then we went to bed and woke up, we had a new president. So now he's disappointing. But I think everything now is a learning process. I love the fact that a lot of people kind of took screenshots, kind of like in their own way, kind of like took notes because they were entrusting of the process. So with the whole discrepancies going with the IREF Portal and what people actually saw so I'm kind of like proud of Nigerians at this point because they were like, okay, you've been sworn in, but we are still going to be behind Peter Obi however long the process takes. Because before Peter Obi became the governor of Anambra State, he was also rigged. But then he had to go to court to get his mandate. So everyone is following that like, okay, if it happened, maybe this may be I have a bit of hope in saying this may be a new Nigeria. If we are all saying, okay, it's fine, let's go through the due process. And I feel sorry for the president and his team because even though he looks like he's won, I don't think he has a lot of support. And I haven't seen his supporters actually publicly rejoicing. So there's something there. I haven't seen them like, yes, we won. Yes, we won. It's like everyone is quiet because they are not sure. So I like the fact that the whole team, the whole president team, is kind of like presidential team. They're kind of like I don't know, they're not comfortable where they are right now because the majority of the country is like looking to see what happens. And everyone is saying, peterby says no fighting, no protests. Let us go with the due process. And most Nigerians, no matter how angry they are, like, let us go through the due process. We are going to support him, we are patient with him. We are going to wait to see how long this plays out. So I like, where Psyche? Where the whole national psyche is. I like it. It's hopeful for me. And I think we are ready, we are really ready to get to the next step.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:15:50]:

Me, when it comes to politics, I should be embarrassed to say this, I don't know, but I've never been into Nigerian politics. I know of one or two leaders, I know of a busanjo, but I don't follow in terms of setting my time out to see what's going on. The only information I get from the Nigerian politics is videos and memes of what people send me about them. On WhatsApp? That's it. That's the only knowledge I know. So I can't really give my impute, I'm afraid. Sorry.

Raphael Harry [00:16:29]:

Yeah. The whole Nigerian politics thing, it gets to a point where you decide it can drain you.

Amaka Abara [00:16:39]:

Yes, it does. Emotionally. I remember I was so stressful. It can cause depression in some aspects because you have this hope, and everybody was so sure because this INEC, they were given huge funds and they were given like, a big budget to make.

Raphael Harry [00:16:57]:

It traveled around the world telling people he instilled confidence in the everyone.

Amaka Abara [00:17:06]:

Because obviously INEX said, oh, this time around is going to be electronic. We're going to do everything on the Internet to promote transparency.

Raphael Harry [00:17:12]:

Because Kean held the election, which I followed. Yes, it was disputed, but I think the guy just loved to dispute stuff. He's never accepted that he ever lost an election. However, that was like an example that if Kenya got jazz right, and Nigeria is about to use this similar model of electronic voting, then there's hope.

Amaka Abara [00:17:42]:

But they still found a way to tamper with it.

Raphael Harry [00:17:44]:

So it's like they did broad daylight robbery. I was following the whole thing and it's like, okay, it's a two pronged attack. Yes, one way, it's just the outright rigging. Typical people who want to win should win. And at the same time, it's meant to discourage future voters from voting, to discourage the people who they consider to be their threats from showing up to the polls. Because if you discredit the institution, you destroy faith in power of voting, which is the biggest protest. It's actually voting is a protest. It's a powerful protest, too, which for some reason we don't talk of it like that, but for some reason it's never been in Nigerian language to consider voting that way. So it's always cool to make sure you weaken that institution and then people stop showing up to vote.

Amaka Abara [00:18:48]:

And I think what made this election very significant is it was just on the back. Like you said, voting is a protest. So this is a continuation of answers. That's what we saw in this election. Because at the same time the Gen Z's were able to vote for the very first time, most of them turned 18 or early. Twenty s. And that was a very funny Twitter video I saw where somebody was like, Gen Z's, don't they watch channels? So it's like, if Gen Z can leave their TikTok and start watching channels and all these Premier League yeah, somebody said his brother actually brought up the spreadsheets and was doing his calculation, saying, no, this is not right, this is not right. And these are like gen z's. So it's like, okay, if these can spark political interest in the younger ones and they are very militant about it, and they are like, this is what we want. To me, I just see it as a positive way. There's so much that you can do to keep people down. You can naturally cannot naturally keep people down for a long time. And I think as Nigerians, in Nigerians generally, we are not very, very in terms of protests, we are not very violent people. For example, if something like this happened in South Africa, you'd have had buildings burning and people would have been on the streets. So we are more like, we talk more. It's our nature to talk more, talk more, as opposed to going, it's unless you push us to the brim. And that's what happened with NSA's because they were killing the young ones. We're like, okay, now we have to come out and fight. We don't care how many of us you kill, but we just want you to stop killing us. So ever since then, I think the assault from the police and the young people has a bit reduced. It hasn't gone away, but they are very wary now because everybody's now keeping an eye on them. What do you want to do? Like, we record you and we'll make sure we track you, we'll make sure we hold you responsible. You can no longer shoot and say, oh, it was accidental discharge. So that's one thing that this election has really brought for me. And in a way, I kind of moved away from the negative feelings I had for a very long time and I started looking at the positive aspect. So I'm like, it's fine. I'm happy it's calmed down. I'm very big on Twitter and I tend to kind of read the social polls on what's going on on the timeline. So I'm not saying that's the correct answer, but I just think at this point, a lot of people are like, it's fine, let us follow the due process. So that's why a lot of people are like, calm.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:21:14]:

Do you think that now there is like a light at the end of the tunnel for Nigeria? In the sense that there's that glimpse that there could be something in the future, maybe not in our lifetime, but the foundation or something has started.

Amaka Abara [00:21:28]:

The fact that they were able to sensitize, the fact that every young person started talking about politics before Nigerians didn't care about politics, it's always trending. When you go to the trends map, that's a very good indicator. You have something seriously happening politically, and they are trending. Premier League black Big Brother Niger and musicians. This person versus this person. But now, during the heat, if you even try to promote your business, people will come for you. The time you come down. You can keep your business. We have a fight in front of us. So people were like, even those that didn't want to get involved, you were somehow involved. You were involved. Involuntary in our ways because people push it on you. And another thing that kind of made it very significant for me is a lot of people were like, now we know who our friends are. Now we know how certain friends think. After this election. I saw loads and loads of tweets that I said, after elections, a lot of friendships will be damaged. So now we are taking it personally. This five, four years ago, you wouldn't have gotten like, I beg, I beg, I beg. I need to go and chop. But now everybody's now saying that. And I think it has started from NSAs, the Twitter ban. And they were like thinking, oh my God, if we are not awake, these people are going to obliterate us. So it's just NSAs was a very big was a big eye opener. It's like, we can coordinate, we can change, we can withstand. It gave us a taste of what it looks like when people are like, no, we don't want to have this. This is what we want. And once it was like he militized a lot of people and then obviously seeing the mass exodus of Nigerians going overseas, walking and living there and seeing how things are working, they are feeding back because a lot of people. If you check, I saw a lot of TikToks last winter. People crying, going to work in the snow and video. If this country was good, would not be the snow, blah blah, blah with the whole export. I love the fact that people are going and they're like, no, we need to fix home. We need to fix home. This is not a place for us. So that's one thing I love about what's happening. From the Ansars to the Twitter band to this election and the fact that everybody keeps bringing receipts, everybody's researching. Now. If a popular broadcasting channel, anything push out, anything, everybody's fact checks. If after fact checking, they'll come and say, no, no, you are lying. Especially what happened with the Nigerian airlines.

Raphael Harry [00:24:04]:

My mom already proved that. If you're not aware, listeners, I'm not going to say the name of the page on Instagram, but I have one of my favorite listeners and she's not from Nigeria. And she once sent me a post from that page. And I was like, yeah, I know that page on Instagram. I used to follow them a long time ago. It's one of these Africa is great. Africa is these pages. But they are the type that would have I don't know if they did the Nigeria Airline thing, but they would have probably said, look at Nigeria as a new airline. Look at fabulous new world class airline. But you who knows? You're like, you know, you're just telling people, there's a lie. You're not telling the truth, but you're going to say, black power. Look at new airline Africa. Yeah, that's just fitting into the inferiority complex. And you're just putting out there because it's just, oh, it's from Nigeria, so it's ultimate. It's fantastic, it's great. So we cannot critique it because it's Nigeria, so it's great. What class. And you're like, no, there's a lot of faults in there. It's like the Dangote refinery. People know I've been pointing out certain things, and you are still like, the richest man in Africa has a refinery. Yeah, this is it. Africa going forward. Like, I don't know. It's not even Nigeria going forward, but the same people you are criticizing in America if their subsidy is given to black farmers. But you are now saying it's great to give the richest man in Africa $2.5 billion, which is on top of the other billions that he has been giving. But that's a whole different economic. When I see pages like that pop up and ask them like, okay, which country are you from? Who's the person in your country that's your richest? Is it okay if I give that person this amount of money to bring some value to your country? Then they're like, Hell no. So I'm like, So why is it cool if Nigeria is doing the same thing?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:26:08]:

I'm always very wary. I know I'm going to come across a certain way, but I'm always very wary of people who over promote blackness. Black business, black this, black that. Don't get me wrong, it's nice for people, but I think a lot of people take advantage of that and use that because it's like charity. Charity is a wonderful thing to give to charity, but then there are people who their charity is not really they shouldn't be seen as charity. So I'm always wary, like, who are the genuine ones that deserve something and who are the ones that don't?

Raphael Harry [00:26:50]:

Exactly.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:26:51]:

Because there's some people that bring out any kind of business, but because they paint it as black owned business, the business, when you go and use that service, you end up looking like the fool, like, I should have just gone to someone else. Why did I go? Because it said black business. But then going back to what you're saying about promoting or because I'm not fact checking, I think we need to be careful when we are coming across things like this. It's so easy to want to believe in something and believe the hype because it's part of us and we want to look good. But at the same time, let's just not be taken as idiots and let's not be foolish and call a spade a spade. If something is happening and if that black business is not doing well, don't try and promote it so other people can fall victim to that business. Just leave it. If you don't say if you don't have anything good to say, just don't say anything. Just don't run and promote things. I'm very wary when websites and things like that say, oh, this, that, hyping things. Yeah, it's easy to fall into that trap. So basically what I'm saying is just be aware and just be careful.

Amaka Abara [00:28:02]:

Let me cut in here. I think if you watch this show called the Black Woman Sketch Show yes, they kind of like had an episode about this where they went to a black restaurant. People know, and that's why you have Google reviews for something. I was so impressed when I went to Nigeria from like 2020, 2019. I think they just realized this Google review, and everybody can leave a review on there. So once you just put any business, you see the ratings straight away. And these are people who have people who have been there, so sometimes they leave long reviews and stuff, and it's happening in Nigeria at the same time. So now you can instead of like going and falling prey, you can easily just put the name of the business and then you see the ratings and people actually say what they've got and all that. I think we are moving away from Heard Wokism or from Heard Interrupted there.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:28:57]:

Because to me that's not necessarily true. And I'll give you an example. I don't want to bait anybody out, but airbnb that we stayed at, the reviews were fantastic and not people leaving that review. I love their pictures where black people and I was thinking, like me, I'm not going to leave any review because I'd rather not than say my honest opinion about that place. But my thing is, why hype this place so much so when the place is less than basic? Because it's a black airbnb? Or I don't know, maybe that's not why. Maybe it's just me being silly. But what I'm saying is sometimes when you say people leave reviews, sometimes those reviews are not honest. Because I went there thinking, yes, the reviews are wonderful, it's nice, but I.

Raphael Harry [00:29:46]:

Was going to bring up the human factor. I got the point.

Amaka Abara [00:29:51]:

You're making me personally, I look at things mathematically. That's how I think. So based on that airbnb, this airbnb has got so many postings, but where we are, the moment is the least stars it's got of all the stars. You have 4.94.8. That particular room where we are, even though people left glowing reviews, it was the lowest of yes, no, but sorry.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:30:20]:

To interrupt again, you're talking about that room. I have no problems with the room. It's the rest of the place that I have a problem with. So when people are leaving their reviews, they're not just talking about the room. When you go to an airbnb, you don't just review the room. You're talking about everything else. You don't just talk about the room. To be fair, the room we're staying in is much better than the whole house. So. If it's just for the room, I'll give him a good point.

Amaka Abara [00:30:45]:

Maybe just thinking about but what I.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:30:47]:

Said, maybe I'm being silly. That's what I'm saying, maybe I'm being silly, but this is what I'm trying to say now is when you watch people's reviews, sometimes they make it look like, oh, yeah, it's good.

Amaka Abara [00:30:57]:

And that's why me, personally, if I'm going to get anything based on reviews, what I do is I see the glowing ones, but then I go to the most recent ones, and then I go and see the most critical. So I compare to see the most recent ones and the most critical, I see the timeline, and then I compare versus the glowing ones. So if you have the most recent tying at the same time with the most critical, obviously it's a red flag, because if the glowing ones were from earlier days, I'm like, okay, balance it out. It's not working. But then if I'm about to make up my mind, I check the critical ones, check positive, negative, because some people can be forcing as well, something that may not be a problem for you. Another person can write the whole page criticizing the whole thing. So that's what I kind of tend to always try to balance things out. So if it's more recent and there's more positive reviews with the more recent ones, I'm like, okay, I'll give it a go. And another thing we check again is the price. Yeah, it's one of the cheapest we found in New Jersey. So when you compare to the price as well as like, you can obviously for the price you're getting it at, something should be wrong with the place.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:32:08]:

No, my point no, what my point is, if I was to go to another Airbnb of the same kind of standard I know the kind of reviews of we use Airbnb all the time for work. No, I look at reviews and I've stayed in places, good places, bad places, and I see how the reviews reflect on the property. But what I'm saying is, with this property, as I said, am I being silly now to think that the review is not reflecting is it because we're trying to protect our own? Is my point is what I'm trying.

Raphael Harry [00:32:51]:

To say, because I wouldn't consider you silly. I think there's this basically, there's this part of us that feels we need to protect our own, like you said, right? But it comes into conflict. Like, okay, I'll give an example. So the guy who stole my podcast equipment before I started White Label American, right, we ended up going to court. I won, okay. The court ruled in my favor. I have to collect money from him. And then it was around George Floyd protest that's when the court had sent me the letter that if he hasn't still paid me, I can go get the marshall of his city and go get him and he's like, no, but I've been to George Floyd protest. Now I'm like, Black Lives Matter. But now to go get police now and go grab a black man and then you're going to see a fellow Nigerian. But he stole from me, right?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:33:48]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:33:49]:

Well, you don't want to go hold your own person accountable. But you are saying hold the government accountable. Exactly, hold every person accountable. But now it comes to your own black person and you're like, well, kitty conscience. But if I say my wife should go get the mash out, then the black one telling the person who's not black to go get so that's one reason why I just refuse to go after him.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:34:11]:

And I'll take this I'll take this one step further and I might offend a lot of people, but you know where they say snitches get stitches?

Raphael Harry [00:34:18]:

Oh, that's a stupid thing.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:34:20]:

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. We just do it ourselves.

Raphael Harry [00:34:25]:

You come and attack me now? Like you touch my daughter now. And I know you might be black, brown, whatever, I will call the policeman.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:34:34]:

But this is the thing. We're not just talking about you. We're talking about the other black people who no, they will not go and say something is what I'm saying, because.

Raphael Harry [00:34:41]:

They'Re trying to disagree there. Because if you look, I get a lot of follow stories. If you're outside of social media in the real world, people be talking, well, that's good. That's how people get caught. And then like, some like I know there was a story of a teenager who did he shot. Yeah, yeah, random. One of them was he one of them shot into I think he was playing with a gun or somebody mistakenly shot at stranger hurt somebody. I can't but it was fatal shooting or so but the mom dragged him to the station was a black mom. Black moms don't play here. If the parent knows this type of thing and they're like the ones who normally avoid like, oh, he's just a kid, is not the black one, it's the white ones that normally do that's why you have the school shooting and then what's the first thing? Well, it's just a kid. Well, if you address the problem the way it should be addressed. But the fact that I've seen so far is now where they know, oh, this kid is writing about I'm going to shoot people and kill kids and all this. And then the parents see it here's just trouble. What do you think about that as the mom? And the mom's like, oh yeah, we should go have some tea. They will lock the guns in the house. I'm surprised it killed how many people what?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:36:13]:

And children what?

Raphael Harry [00:36:14]:

No, mama going to match you.

Amaka Abara [00:36:16]:

They'll beat you first in the house.

Raphael Harry [00:36:24]:

Don't fix the problem though. That's the only difference with Nigeria. Don't fix it. But they were just like, you know what, I think it's time for vacation to Nigeria. Your passport is not community. They take your passport from you and leave. You go and stay in village somebody or not, but you might go join militant group.

Amaka Abara [00:36:41]:

The thing is, to be very honest, if I'm going to play devil's advocate, I think why most people of color, especially black people, hesitate to kind of like take things further is because the system doesn't treat them fairly at the end of the day because two people can commit the same offense. But for the black person they will get more time and more heavy punishment as opposed to the other counterparts of other races. So I can understand the hesitation because it's just like a tiny little thing like where you said the mom can say they can always for example, when things happen like that's a troubled thing. And he says over adultification of black kids. Yes, they call black children men women, but then you see like the same age and they say that's just a troubled kid. So it's the narratives as well. So it's like, okay, probably we can deal with it as a community and give this person their own punishment. I'm not advocating for vigilante justice. No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm just trying to provide a sort of like insight into how white people may hesitate to put it out there in the open because that person is unfairly. They can give the person so much years, so much this, so much that. Then the same person from another race may commit the same thing. And another thing is also economics. The black people, we don't have enough money to hire the best lawyers and stuff to really present the case and make them walk away with probably just a very fair sentence. So most black people end up with state appointed lawyers who have cases, public defenders, public defenders and they may not do a good job.

Raphael Harry [00:38:30]:

Final thing I'll say on this topic of time on it is your point there. However, one thing I add to that is that the part of the discipline thing, I don't know if you've seen any of these old shows where it's like they take a kid to prison.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:38:56]:

And.

Raphael Harry [00:38:58]:

Meet a real gangster.

Amaka Abara [00:39:04]:

Of course I love that shoes.

Raphael Harry [00:39:07]:

If you look at history, I'm trying to write the title of the book, but it talked about like the crime bill that's important, trying to use against Joe Biden. The previous election, black people supported that bill in large numbers. It's not like there's just internet nonsense that they were saying, joe Biden, Benny Sanders, but everybody supported it. But black people wanted something like that because of crime in the community. But when you look at that discipline thing, there was something like they wanted that type of scare tactics to exist where you can bring you bring the police and say, okay, my teenager did something wrong. Like, okay, just come scare the teenager. All of different parents do that across communities. I'm not saying it's right. Of the restorative, justice, you should do it. But it's something that if you've seen different communities, everybody had something like that, that they wanted.

Amaka Abara [00:40:00]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:40:01]:

However, because of this identification of only mostly black kids not only black kids, but mostly because our Hispanic breadwin, depending on which city you're in, it happens to them a lot too. And our native indigenous people of Native American descent happens to them too. When you bring police for that kind of thing in many places is handcuffs. They get charged.

Amaka Abara [00:40:28]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:40:29]:

And that probably might be where that language of don't snitch. Because if you take that, you are trying to ski. It's supposed to be like a scared kid. Because I know somebody in real life when I was a Navy white kid, a white dude, not a kid, he's a grown man. But he told me of something that he comes from money. Like real money, like big money. And there was one time he did something stupid, but he was supposed to have been arrested. And they put him in the back of the police car and the cops drove him. It was like 02:00 a.m. And they called his dad instead of taking him to the station. So he's in the back. He doesn't even know where he's drunk and all that. And his dad shows up, and his dad is peace. Like, why did I wake up? His dad was like, Why didn't you guys take him to the station? Should have left him in the station. But the cops are like, oh, we thought we're doing you a favor. Who you are in the community because of the power that he represents. The person that the dad represents. Like, you guys should have thrown this idiot because he's a waste of money, that type of kid. He is. That's why he ended up in the Navy. And he still got kicked out of the Navy. This guy, when he was telling me that story, I was thinking about how many black and brown kids or whichever who've done the same thing that he did. It's not a violent crime, but as soon as they call the police and they put you in that, you get in the back of that car. They're not calling your parents. Now, in some places, they might. But for the majority of cases, from the examples, the stories about people who we know, that's why you're seeing cities where you have progressive politicians voted into office, which is very important to do. You are seeing them reversing laws, changing laws that have been in place forever, that you can't hold people setting things in people's records and just punish them for life.

Amaka Abara [00:42:30]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:42:31]:

Because of incidents like that where teenagers misbehave. Yes. So they go drink. You throw stuff on a statue. Founding Father statue, probably has slaves or whatever and then you call police and they lock down. They charge because once they bring that kid to the station, they have to charge the kid. If that's the law of the city, the law of the state, they have to charge the kid. And if they do their job, which is part of the police reform, that you can say, okay, now you don't have to charge all the kids you bring to the city, right to the jail, then that kid is in the record. So the community has now decided, okay, do we want our kids to be in the record? We don't want them to have that record. But the kid did something terribly because some now start applying to the ones who did something terribly because I'm sorry, some kids need to be arrested. Some kids not every kid needs to be arrested. And there's all that. That's why it's layered. But that's where those languages start coming out. And then somebody will now come online.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:43:26]:

They just get stitches.

Raphael Harry [00:43:28]:

And I'm like, hey, my friend, calm down. What are you talking about? You stole somebody's life savings. And then you are saying snitches get stitches, my friend, go. The other one, you shot Meg the stallion, my friend, you had the gun. The whole thing was clear brought they like, you're still shouting there. Oh, my son. Is Richard like Martin Luther King?

Amaka Abara [00:43:46]:

What?

Raphael Harry [00:43:46]:

Martin Luther King. Get out here. Go to the jail, go to prison. Go. So people, we are applying sayings for the wrong things when real people have been hurt, people without the resources have been hurt. And that's why even the default police I stopped saying all that, stopped using all those phrases because it's cool to just throw the phrase out there. People don't think about the human beings who suffer the consequences. There's no solution. There's nothing. Just so, anyway, let's move on to the one that the tea, I need some tea being spilled. That's what Nigeria does. Nigeria takes you all around. I will leave Nigeria for a little bit, but I'll still come back to Nigeria. Let me see. We have to go quickly through the answers now. All right, brexit. Has Brexit affected you guys work?

Amaka Abara [00:44:44]:

To me, I'll just say, to be honest to Brexit, to be honest, personally, I would just say we are seeing things in terms of rising cost of living, food and things, fuel and labor, obviously. But to be honest, speaking as a Nigerian person who is part of the Commonwealth and saying that most of the, what you call it, most of the recruitment into jobs overseas now is coming from Commonwealth, which Nigeria has benefited largely until our government went and snitched and say we don't want nurses and doctors living Nigeria anymore. So it kind of benefited us, to be honest, because we had more opportunities, unlocked a lot of potential for people like us. And obviously the other people from the other Commonwealth countries. Because if we are going to compare the economics, I'm talking of like real people. This is a country where people live under a cent or under a dollar for a day. So most countries are still in the Commonwealth that needs that kind of like push. Because I'm saying this in terms of the amount of money, in terms of what the diasporans inject into the economy back home, if they have the opportunities of working overseas. So in a way, it favored us, people from the Commonwealth, it favored us. But also on the flip side, it kind of like made a lot of things. It made the hardship, the hardship that were expected to come from Brexit, kind of like it prolonged it because this happened in 2016 and we award 2023, so we are still suffering from it. We thought it was going to be like suffering to enjoy forever kind of a thing. But the suffering promised. Yeah, the suffering is being prolonged. So in terms of work wise, I tend to see more Nigerians now at work. I tend to see more black people in senior position at work. And no matter how far I go, because I don't work in London anymore, I tend to work outside. So no matter how far I go, no matter anywhere I turn up, I see Nigerians. Which is sort of in a way in a way can be comforting and at the same time weary because Nigerians nigerians. My God, Nigerians. Just I don't want to get into working with Nigerians and things I don't really want to get into. So in a way, normally a place I would have been like, I'll give an example, a place I would have been like three years earlier, I'll definitely be the only black person. Then coming back after that point, I see a few black people and most of them are Nigerians. I'm like, okay, come, it's okay, at least. But at the same time, you have to be wary as well because we come from a competition mindset. So it's like once they've seen you there and obviously you're not dreamed on the same level as them, they begin to wonder, why is this person having why is this person like this? Why can't I be like that? And in a way they can go, I'll give you an example, you know, with this girl that set the trend for the attempted to break the Guinness World Record for cooking. So now we have somebody else doing that. Now someone else has started his record.

Raphael Harry [00:48:15]:

Last for a week.

Amaka Abara [00:48:16]:

He's not even verified by Gunners. So that's the problem I have with Nigerians. That is a personal problem.

Raphael Harry [00:48:24]:

We don't believe in process. You win. I win.

Amaka Abara [00:48:27]:

Yeah. I love it. Process.

Raphael Harry [00:48:29]:

Like, I alone. Must be me. York, stay behind me and push me.

Amaka Abara [00:48:33]:

Up and cheer for me and you at the top.

Raphael Harry [00:48:37]:

We all can win together.

Amaka Abara [00:48:38]:

I'll bring you down and then I'll go there because you up there. How many heads do you have? So that's the problem I have with them. One part is comforting to see them, but another part is wary as well, because you don't know if this person is coming for my job.

Raphael Harry [00:48:51]:

Because there we backstab you.

Amaka Abara [00:48:53]:

Yes, we backstab you. That very big.

Raphael Harry [00:48:55]:

We take the capitalism to a whole yeah, we copied the wrong thing from the American system.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:49:03]:

So for my own experience with Brexit, what I will say is there's a number of factors at the moment. Number one, I feel like the whole world is going through something right now. So to pin it down on Brexit, I don't know how much I would say as a result of Brexit, the only thing I can say could be a result of Brexit. However, there was two sides to that. I'll give an example. When I was studying a uni, my course was free of charge. And we got a bursary free of charge. We got our accommodation free of charge. Literally, everything was free of charge. If you wanted to get student loan, that's your business, but you pay that back. But everything else was free of charge. I was lucky. So when I finished my course and I think the set or two after me, it was the same. Then they introduced this thing where they had to pay the bursary back and all this extra stuff. They had to pay for their accommodation, which that one still happens now. So the influx of nurses radiographers, because it was Allied health professional courses that were all free. So your physiotherapists, your paramedics, your nurses, your radiographers, your BioMed, I think they're also part of that umbrella is all free. So they changed that, the government changed that and what happened? Yeah. So the influx of the number of students that they would have normally taken over that period was low because people are thinking, why should I pay for something when I could go to another degree? And when I come out of that degree, I get a job that pays way more, so why should I pay for something? Is that kind of thing. So the incentive was taken away from people. So it kind of coincided where? Three years in England, four years in Scotland. So three years when they were meant to have graduated from that course. And then you now have people coming into the workforce. I think it kind of coincided during the whole Brexit thing. So a lot of Europeans went back to like I had colleagues at work who were from Spain, who went back to Spain. I have colleagues that were from Portugal, who went back to Portugal. I mean, they started to come back slowly, but at that time, they all kind of did this mass exodus. They all went back. So we then had a gap in the market where we need to recruit staff, but there's no staff because the number of students that would have graduated and filled that workforce are no longer there. So, for instance, when I graduated, I'll give an example. If there was 200 in my class, for instance, I don't think there was up to that, but say there was 200 and now there's only 20. So people are retiring from jobs in a hospital. People are changing careers. As you do. When you get to a certain age, this doesn't fulfill you anymore. You think, I'm going to change my career. So you have people leaving the NHS for good or bad reasons, whatever. People die, people get sick, people change careers, whatever. So now every year we have a number of recruitments that we not me, but the NHS has, and there's no one to take up the jobs because there was no one recruited went to Uni over that period of all those years. So now I don't know now if it's still happening, but there was this rush recruitment of people from Nigeria, from the Philippines, from Sri Lanka. They've had to recruit all these people, which is good for those country, people leaving their countries to come and earn more money and send back home, as you do. But it just made that gap. So for Brexit, I will say it got to that point where the UK now didn't have their own homegrown, people taking up those roles. Now you're having people from Jamaica, although now we're starting to have thank you. Now we're starting to have people coming from Australia, New Zealand, Portugal, but they're not as much as they used to be. So that's one part of Brexit, the number two part of Brexit, which okay for that.

Amaka Abara [00:53:20]:

Like I said, I don't know if.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:53:20]:

It'S anything to do with Brexit, but it did coincide with when the university was doing all that then. The other part is what's going on now. But then, I don't know, is it 100% down to Brexit or is it 100% down to everything else in the rest of the world? There's just like a domino effect. It affects one place and it's happening to everybody. So, yeah, like COVID happened Russia and Ukraine and everything else. So I don't know. Global warming. So a lot of things aren't, you know, so I I can't say hundred percent. This is like I can tell you cost of living has gone up, but cost of living has gone up everywhere. So, yeah, I can't say this is to say what has anything different with Brexit? I can't say this is what was different.

Amaka Abara [00:54:15]:

No, I'll tell you, for example, when I went to the when you go to some shops, some shelves sit there, very empty, because they've not been yes, they've not been able to resolve the trade agreements within because what's his name?

Raphael Harry [00:54:28]:

Femi something, I can't remember his last name right now.

Amaka Abara [00:54:34]:

I put that down to Brexit, because important food they haven't sorted out. That's one of the things that has been like I would say it has chopped a lot of Prime Minister's head because they've not been able to reach an agreement, a trade agreement that will benefit us and still benefit. The EU, because the EU, obviously the regulations they are giving the UK in terms of trade is punitive because they're still punishing us for going for voting to leave. So they are yet to come to an agreement. And I also think it's slow because the plan was to move trade from the EU bloc to the Commonwealth bloc, because obviously, with the Commonwealth, there's more countries, there's more access, but there's more what we forgot was England is physically located in Europe and it would be cheaper to get things from EU. So I think they're trying to walk a thin line, but obviously the Europeans are like, no, you can't eat your cake and have it. If you want to go to Commonwealth, go to Commonwealth. And you cannot give us dictated terms to us. We dictate terms to you. If you like it, you take it. If you don't want, goodbye. So that just still they haven't really that's why I think, to be honest.

Raphael Harry [00:55:52]:

It'S a good cash there, because that point is excellent. Because even with the Commonwealth, the way it comes to the logistics and the supply chain, some countries are up here, some countries are down here, so you can't just make one trade deal with the whole commonwealth. But that's for the Prime Minister Rumak Boy to decide. But if he wants to pay me as a consultant, rishi call me.

Amaka Abara [00:56:21]:

Last.

Raphael Harry [00:56:21]:

I probably last with you for, like, two weeks. One year salary. Yeah. I don't think we have much time left, but there's one question I need to ask you.

Amaka Abara [00:56:33]:

Amaka okay.

Raphael Harry [00:56:34]:

You made an announcement last year on social media. Yes. So I'm interested to know what the reactions have been to that announcement from family, from the Nigerian suspects, the usual suspects in Nigeria, because people always be like woman. They always diagnose. Once you cross the age of you get to the age of 26, you don't have three kids. What's going on? So that announcement seemed to have paused and signed in those people's plans. Those people have already made plans of how you be a grandmother already by 35, that kind of thing. So what made you comfortable enough to come out and make the announcement? Why did you feel you had the needs to make the announcement? And can you let the audience know what the announcement was?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [00:57:30]:

Okay.

Amaka Abara [00:57:31]:

I came out as the lesbian woman last year on my social media, Instagram and Twitter, because this probably and on Facebook as well, this where obviously most of my friends and extended family are. To be honest, I suffered. I had mental breakdown in the beginning of 2022. It was a very tough time. That was like, a very dark time for me. But what happened is when anything happens to you and the way you react to it, we don't really have new experiences. So I put that back to as a teenager struggling with my sexuality. It affected my academics and I'm from a very big my mom is a teacher. She's someone that you say if you come first this time and your average is 78.2 and you come 1st 2nd term or your average is 76 point something, she'll tell you, no, you went back because your average was so that's how strict she was with those. But then I started suffering and I've always as an adult, I've always asked myself, why was it from that 1514, 1516 years old? Why was I all the subjects I was really good at? I'll give you an example of mathematics. I used to be 98, 99%, but as soon as I became a teenager, it started dropping. And now I realized at the point was the same time I was struggling with my sexuality, I was very, very closeted. I never saw it as a part of me at the time. I thought it was some sort of possession because I come from a strong Catholic background. And I was thinking it's one of those evil things, temptations that come to you, so you have to pray it away. And so I struggled with it into my early adulthood. I still struggled with it, but then after I had this big breakdown because a lot of things, if you ignore your mental health and emotional reactions and your psychological health, it just keeps getting big and big and big and big. It gets to the point where you can't handle it anymore. So coming out from the hospital, I say to myself, just say it, just really say it, because you've been hiding all the while. It affected a lot of my relationships. I couldn't keep relationships for a very long time. One of my significant relationships I always refer back to when obviously at the time I was like, oh, I'm woke and all this I'm liberal, I'm polyamorous, I don't mind being an open relationship. But that was an eye opener for me. And in a way, even though it ended very badly, in a way, I feel it was meant to happen. Because at the time I've seen this same guy in an open relationship, at the same time I was seeing girls. And to him, he made it very, very I don't know how to explain it. He kind of like fostered that. So that was when at the point he turned around and said to me, you know, you enjoy being with girls. And I didn't really take that. I took that. I don't know how to explain that it stuck with me, but I didn't really believe that until I started listening to my own body. So I just started finding out that, no, I can't work with men. With men. If I end. Relationships with men, I don't care. But if I end a relationship with a girl, I go on. Like, one of the most painful things that's happened to me in my life, all the times I've had issues is with women. So I said to myself, Why still like, you don't need to hide this anymore. And the reason why I made the whole announcement was people were on my neck. I want you to marry my brother. I want you to marry my nephew. I had to dodge people from work. We had all these ladies from work. After doing a shift to them, they'll come, Give me your number. I have this. They kept trying to introduce me like, no. So at some point, I'm like, okay. Even my family, because my younger sister's got three kids. She's married. So it's like, Your younger sister's got three kids and she's my why are you still doing so I had to say to them, Listen and listen. I'm a lesbian woman. I'm saying it out now, so I don't want any it was a shock. Some people had kind of, like, had a shock. But some other people who I have in my life that I had known before, I actually admitted to myself, they were the ones that came in the inbox and say, yeah, that's fine. We have known. We've known all this. Why? And I remember you asked the first interaction I had with you asked me, and I kind of, like, regrowed out of that question because I wasn't comfortable at the time. That's right. But after suffering that, I kind of decided to start paying attention to my mental health, paying attention to my physical health, paying attention to the whole body and all that. So at this point, I don't really care about people's reaction because this is me now saying because me not coming out was living my life according to their standards. And it didn't work for me. Never. It never worked for me. But at this point, I've been at so much peace with myself, I've lost a number of friends, even some close friends that acting like, in Nigerian them, like, half current. Before I'll be so bothered, I'll be like, I'll try to explain myself over.

Raphael Harry [01:03:03]:

No.

Amaka Abara [01:03:03]:

I realized that the only person I own an explanation is to to myself. Because when I was in hospital, it was just me. When I was suffering mentally, it was just me. So why do I care what people I've had a lot of support. I'm grateful to have Jennifer on my side. Because when I was telling you my early twenty s, I was so homophobic. It's what we call internalized homophobia. And I'm happy I read about it today. I read about internalized homophobia, and I followed some people's stories. I was like, oh, my God. Okay. I stopped feeling ashamed because I used to be I didn't really come out for a long time because I was ashamed of my anti gay stance at the time. I was very vocal about it because I was a Christian.

Raphael Harry [01:03:44]:

I can relate.

Amaka Abara [01:03:45]:

Yeah, because obviously I try. I'm like, who wants to be humble? Who wants to be a demon? I mean, I got sent for deliverance at a very young age. So I'm like, who wants to be a demon and all that. Who wants to be so as soon as I just stopped seeing my life or the world through Christianity and Patrick Olens, I had a lot of insight. My mind was open. I was able to listen to some people. I was able to read some things. There are many, many. Like, for example, I'll give you an example. There was this time when Rafiki came out. I think it was in 2016. So I refused to watch Rafiki because I was very, very homophobic at the time. I was like, no, but I had the interest. Today I managed to watch Rafiki. I didn't finish it because when it got to the point where they started beating the girls, I was in tears, so I didn't get myself to finish it. And what really killed me was there was a scene where the girl was one of the girls, her mom took her to the church, and everybody had hands like, I can't for weeks and weeks and weeks. I paused that part. I didn't watch it until after a while, after I'd come out, it was only last year that I said, okay, I'm going to watch this film to the end.

Raphael Harry [01:05:00]:

The internal homophobia. First of all, I'm glad that you came out and you said not because you made that announcement publicly, you don't really owe the world any announcement, but that's on you to make that choice. But the reason why I'm glad is that you own your truth and you recognize your truth, and you said it for you.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:05:21]:

Do you know what made me laugh? This is a few years ago when she was very, very homophobic, and me and her were going back and forth. And I remember you sent me what do they call those things when people do not review, like, research from the 70s about homophobia, being mental health.

Amaka Abara [01:05:49]:

To be honest, this was thought towards because I trained as a no, seriously. And in one of my sarcastic classes, homosexuality was classified as a mental illness. So imagine from the church, I'm a demon, and in academic sense, I have mental illness. So who wants to be a demon? I also suffer mental illness.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:06:12]:

Always remember sending me that.

Amaka Abara [01:06:17]:

And I was refusing to see I was refusing to see any other thing.

Raphael Harry [01:06:21]:

My mind was so when I say I can relate. I've seen all that in my family. I've seen all that around me.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:06:27]:

But you've come a long way. You have come a long way.

Raphael Harry [01:06:30]:

One thing I recommend is documentary. Just I think it's about a week or two now on Amazon Prime. Shiny happy people about the doggas story. The Dogga family, they used to have.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:06:44]:

The reality TV show on.

Raphael Harry [01:06:48]:

Watch that documentary. It's not because of the Dogga family. I'm recommending I'm saying she watched documentary. But you will see the teaching, the methods that they use to teach when they start talking about it, you recognize it. It will make sense to you because these are things like the guy who the 700 Club guy.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:07:10]:

Oh, yes.

Amaka Abara [01:07:14]:

And I heard about this other guy, that where he comes reheard Bonkey.

Raphael Harry [01:07:19]:

My wife is German. Every time I'm about to go to Germany in two days, I've not seen a German who knows that guy.

Amaka Abara [01:07:27]:

Apparently he was paying people. He was paying people cris actors too.

Raphael Harry [01:07:31]:

But you're going too far. Let's get grounded. Shiny, happy people. There's the Hill Song documentary. I think that one is I think both of them that was on Hulu. I think that might be on Disney or Star for you guys in the UK or Europe. Those two deal with mega churches, the conservative Christianity. But when you juxtapose it to the Nigerian society, how we teach kids how the schooling system and all that, you will see it's like they just literally took stuff from them and they will flip the skin and it's black kids that's getting but you will see how I won't finish documentaries, both of them. The secrets of the hill song, church and the shiny, happy people. Shiny, happy people. I was watching and I was like, it makes sense now, all this stuff. I was like Bible school, it makes sense. So when I was talking one way, when I used to be this person who when I explained people now that I'm not like 25, 30 years ago, these are my views.

Amaka Abara [01:08:47]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:08:48]:

People are like well, I'll say that now, see how you are that type of person. It makes sense. I'm like, yeah, it does. That's why when I see them now, I can make jokes about them. I can make jokes. The only reason why I couldn't go back and be a pastor in Nigeria now is because I didn't get married early or that kind of thing. But I could still go back technically. But I'll judge you laughing when I expose yourself. Yeah, but why I recommended documentaries, you need to still see the damage that is causing today. Because the people who made documentaries, I don't think they realize that it's worldwide. They are talking about it more from an American point of view and in the present terms. Now you have the MAGA movement, you have all this happening, but it goes depend on that. So when I see the Pat robots scene, he died and there were people tweeting about him. He died two days ago.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:09:44]:

Two days?

Raphael Harry [01:09:45]:

Yeah. I was like he lived way too long. All my childhood he was always on TV.

Amaka Abara [01:09:52]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:09:55]:

If you watch 700 Club and you didn't grow up to be homophobic. Something there's no way you don't become homophobic if you don't watch another thing.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:10:02]:

Again, that was always on TV with the telephone.

Raphael Harry [01:10:11]:

When you start listening, like, I was a kid, I didn't understand what he was saying. But by the time you start you get to teenage years, young adults, and then you start saying certain things. Where have you been getting it from?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:10:24]:

Indoctrination.

Raphael Harry [01:10:26]:

You already indoctrinated into that system. And then before you won't get to your church and all that. But every day you're sitting there watching this guy who's oh, he's a good Christian. No, but this shiny, happy people. The secrets of the Hill song. Church Hill Song is important because the pastor was like a heap guy. The New York branch loved him. The Australian one was more conservative. The guy was more popular. He was tattoos come a long way.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:10:57]:

From when I used to watch all celebrities.

Raphael Harry [01:11:00]:

Justin Bieber.

Amaka Abara [01:11:01]:

Yeah, Justin Bieber.

Raphael Harry [01:11:03]:

But on that ground, when I was watching it, the first few minutes, I was like, there's like no black people in your leadership. You attract black youths and all that little things you see the little things, that when you start building, you're like but it makes sense because all this is a literal photocopy in Nigeria right now. There's a literal copy. And then when you hear the languages that people who attend those churches use yeah, of course.

Amaka Abara [01:11:33]:

Also, just not to take you back well, another thing I just said I had to mention is I also had to do that because representation matters. I think what gave me the strength to actually come out is there's a blog called I forgot the name of the blog for them. Lesbian and gay for Nigerians. So I saw it. Yeah. It's called Keto Diaries.

Raphael Harry [01:11:56]:

Keto?

Amaka Abara [01:11:57]:

Yeah keto diaries.

Raphael Harry [01:11:58]:

How you spell keto.

Amaka Abara [01:11:59]:

K-I-T-O keto diaries.

Raphael Harry [01:12:01]:

Okay.

Amaka Abara [01:12:01]:

So there was someone who came and said about how he was homophobic and he just had blah, blah, blah. I think after reading that comment, I was moved so much, I left a comment on there, and I was like, I used to be this person. But the thing that's helped me is I was with friends who my friends were gay. Some of my gay friends, they never condemned me. They were just smiling and very patient with me. And then when I came out, they kind of like, so these are the people I always I still credit, because when they see you, they know. And they know you're struggling because some of them have been there. So I'm like, if someone like me, he was so vocal, can I say, okay, guys, actually, it means another person or something, or someone in my family or someone close to me or my family friend or anybody I know. I'm not saying that I'm not privileged because of my location and obviously my independence. I can say this and thrive. I know some people is life or death for them, but it's just if I can finally say the truth. I've had some of my classmates message me, saying to me, oh, how did you know you were gay? I've known I was gay since I was eight years old, for God's sake. But I thought it was an evil thing. So it's like, fine, you've seen me, I exist and look at my journey. So even when sometimes I remember I was like, should I go back on Twitter and delete all my things? And Jenny said to me, no, it shows progression of mine. And this was a conversation I had with her many years ago. So I'm happy I didn't do that. And sometimes when Facebook reminders come up, I'm like, oh my God, look at what I was thinking. So it makes me give grace to other people. I no longer fight people who are homophobic. Once they are homophobic, I say to them, I hope you know I'm gay. And they're like, yes, we know. But I'm like, no, you can't separate it. If you are my friend, you cannot do that. But I'm not going to say, why are you being homophobic? Why? No, it's because of my own experience.

Raphael Harry [01:14:03]:

Final thing I'll say on that is the old messages, the old tweets. It's a tricky place because of how vindictive social media can be. There are people who I don't believe council culture. I don't believe in council culture. The only people can actually counsel culture per se are the government and corporations. Yeah, individuals. We cannot really but all I've seen is vindictive use of something like that. Like, I use the example of the the former woman who was made I think she was the first black woman to be editor of Teen Vogue. And people brought out tweets that she made when she was a teenager. And this you type of type of thing to allegations what you were treating. But she was a teenager when she was appointed. She was about late 20s. But they were bringing up tweets from when she was like, 1516.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:15:09]:

That shows the maturity of those people.

Raphael Harry [01:15:11]:

But the heat was so much. But these were not children bringing that up. And this included black people, black men. But now it's like once they see black men then and the rest and jump in and say, oh, it's not racism if a black person leads the attack. And in the end, she had to resign. The company stood by her, but she was like, the heat is getting too much, so I'm going to just step away. But they tend to use it against women, from what I've noticed. Like, the ones who are like, oh, Beyonce use this word, which is against in this country, it's an insult to disabled people. We know. Everybody knows that word in the whole world.

Amaka Abara [01:15:51]:

True.

Raphael Harry [01:15:51]:

So you need to apologize. And I can't think. But you don't see them do that to the male rappers. You don't see them do that to other people. But it's like that selective outreach applied to certain people. But why I'm bringing that up is because it's like the more you're doing good, then there's one point in time. It's like once you're about to take a second big step, the temple just go, oh, she tweeted this in 2015.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:16:15]:

But it's different. It's different because she was homophobic and now everybody knows she's gay.

Raphael Harry [01:16:24]:

They all made a change. One point in time. There's no grace on Internet. On Twitter. There's none.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:16:30]:

And for me, I say the whole point is people have given these people leverage. And people always apologize. What are you apologizing for? I don't get it. Because when you give people that power, then they'll use it against you. If I've tweeted something from years ago and it's not my views today, but the thing is, sadly, I'm not saying this is in the perfect world, but sadly, the world we live in today's, people are disgusting, people are jealous. People are just out for everybody. It's like when Kevin Hart had that opportunity to host.

Raphael Harry [01:17:15]:

That was one of those was wrong because then I was in Mobile.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:17:18]:

But this is my thing. I always feel like when I said to Chamaka, no, don't delete what you've written because it shows who you are. Like, for instance, I used to be, before I was atheist, roman Catholic as well. And I remember.

Raphael Harry [01:17:37]:

Somebody writes it right now, dare you. I just buy my T shirt and Bonnie.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:17:45]:

So but you see, I was one of those people that was if you're not Roman Catholic, if you're not Christian, you're burning in hell. Plain, simple, end of no discussion. That's how it is. And I remember being atheist a few years ago because I haven't been on social media since 2019. So I remember this is before 2019, I went on Facebook and I was thinking, when did I become atheist? Because it was all it's like your thing. When did I become atheist? But because I went back to my Facebook and I remember the first post I posted as an atheist. I was on a new K 2012. I was atheist. But I think that's what I'm saying. Going back to Chamaka, some times it just shows that pivot in your life, that point in your life. And then when you look at everything else, the big picture, what was going on in my life? What was that catalyst? What was the reason? So when people come and use that against you, I think people need to say, hang on a minute, that was me then. This is me today. I'm not that same person. I've grown. I'm a better person. For me to be that person and be who I am now shows you the kind of person that I am. And people give power to all these social media people that don't deserve it.

Raphael Harry [01:18:48]:

Well said. I agree on that. Like the show beef. I don't know if you watched the show Beef.

Amaka Abara [01:18:54]:

No.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:18:55]:

Yes. Is that wait, that the one with the Asian American woman and man the historic car? Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:19:03]:

Storytelling.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:19:04]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:19:05]:

And are you aware of the controversy?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:19:07]:

No, I'm on social media, so I have no idea what my friend recommended me to watch it.

Raphael Harry [01:19:15]:

We need to set up because on Patreon, we did a discussion on Beef, myself and my friend Ashwin. But I need to get you back. When you do a discussion with you, it will be virtually because social media people one of the cast, the cousin who was in prison.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:19:34]:

Yeah, the big guy.

Raphael Harry [01:19:35]:

Yeah, the big guy. So the guy who plays that role, David Cho, years ago, he had tweeted something. Well, not tweeted. He had a podcast. And on his podcast, he's one of these edge lords.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:19:47]:

What's that?

Raphael Harry [01:19:48]:

The guys who like to make jokes that like on the edge.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:19:52]:

Okay. You mean like duck jokes? I like dark humor. So yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:20:01]:

His joke was about, he claimed because he was with a comedian who likes actual dark jokes. And he claimed he raped it was sexual assault. He literally described of a black woman of a masseuse who it seemed like he was joking.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:20:21]:

Oh, he joked about it.

Raphael Harry [01:20:23]:

It was a joke he was trying to make, which was important. And he apologized the next day. And then years later, somebody brought it up. It trended again. And then he apologized, and he said he was having some mental issues. He has gone to seek help. He's like taking a break, and he's going to seek help and all that. So it's been like years back, right? 2014. He's an artist. He does paintings and some stuff. He has big thing with Facebook and other companies. And so when he shows up to do some work, people still come up with like, he hates black women and all this.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:20:52]:

Get over yourself.

Raphael Harry [01:20:54]:

Now beef is announced. They've announced the cast all that. There was no problem. The show hits number one on Netflix. People are like, this show is the best show of the year. And all this. And then slowly but steady, of course. So you're going to support a show where this guy hates black women. You didn't even say he hates black women. And from there so I have to ask somebody who's actually Asian and from that community who tweets about Hollywood and all this, who was celebrating Beef before this came up? And he was like, this guy needs to he didn't even apologize properly. And he was like, okay, what is your end goal? I'm just interested. What is your end what will satisfy you? Where he did not apologize properly, I'm like, okay. I don't know what apology he's going to make that will draw blood. Satisfy you?

Amaka Abara [01:21:41]:

Yeah, maybe draw blood.

Raphael Harry [01:21:42]:

What is your okay, well, I'm glad you're asking, but look, it's not to me anymore. It's up to the women he raped. The cast came out. The cast had to come out and make a statement and said they've known this guy. They are proud of the work he has done to fix his mental health. And that's what they stand by him. I think when he started attacking out of the cast, they zeroed in on the woman. And I always say that's why I always bring it back to it's always the woman, it tends to end up with. And it was the woman. She should have held him like, oh, go and grab him by the truth. How dare you. This one is always because you can see slowly, slowly, and it doesn't matter if the person on the right or on the left, but they slowly start zeroing in on the woman. And some people realize they're doing it because they're so in that anger, and they start doing it. And so when I asked the guy, the guy now said, oh, it's up to women. What about women decided? I said, well, are you saying sexual assault only happens to women?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:22:37]:

Yeah, exactly.

Raphael Harry [01:22:40]:

It was like, by my question in the tread changed because everybody had been like, yeah, he apologized enough f this guy and all this and all that. And then somebody like, I want to ask my question. Yeah, so, yeah, what do you want him to say? What is exactly other words, he needs to apologize without dissatisfactory people at the end. It's like, oh, but if he takes his life right now, check on your friend. I know, because check on your friends.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:23:08]:

This is what I'm saying. This is like a bottom line.

Raphael Harry [01:23:11]:

It's not real.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:23:12]:

You can never fulfill these people are I don't know, one of the reasons why I'm happy that I'm non social media, because I don't get to see that that is not in my daily life. And maybe that's why I'm so happy.

Amaka Abara [01:23:28]:

I think what is cancer culture? But I think gradually people are moving away from cancer culture and now looking more into context. Because normally, for example, in the past, if we say three or four years ago, his cast would not have come out to say, we stand with him, where everyone would have been like, cancer culture. But now people are kind of, like, sifting through the whole thing and saying, hang on, what happened? What was the context? What was this, like, the difference between now and then? So this question but the thing that cancel culture prevents is having a conversation from the other side and trying to see where the other side is coming from.

Raphael Harry [01:24:05]:

They just call it cancel culture. If you're honest, it's not even canceled culture because at the same time, since Netflix does everything in one rollout, the show called Succession was up, was going on, and that's like they call it like the best show. I haven't watched succession, but I know I believe it's one of the best shows because people whose opinions I read love that show, but it's a majority white cast. Now, do we have some problematic people in there? Hell yeah.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:24:39]:

Probably we do, yes.

Raphael Harry [01:24:40]:

Now, if you want to do that, use that same parameter of, let me pick. This person said this or did this. You can apply to three or four people in that cast, but whenever I show is number one, you don't get anything trending from there. Swamp Hits number one on Amazon Prime. Donor Glover hits Black Women. It starts to trend. So you start to see it. It's like when people of color have something, like if a black woman, Beyonce has a track that's hot, it goes up. Then that controversy comes out. It's like a black person has a show, that's number one. Controversy comes out. Asian American has a show. Number one controversy has to come out.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:25:16]:

Do you think it's divided and conquer kind of thing. What I'm trying to say is, do you think it's like, for instance, if this is my show, that's your show, that I'm trying to throw dirt on your show to squash your show. And do you think it's in house? Not in house. I mean, like industry within the industry that they send all these people to.

Raphael Harry [01:25:35]:

Rather than I don't know. I've seen that conspiracy theory going around. I don't know. But I just know that the title has been this trend from Black Panther. When it came out and everybody was celebrating, you see that one person, even.

Amaka Abara [01:25:51]:

The woman king as well. The woman king.

Raphael Harry [01:25:54]:

Well, you know, if this movie was not historically good enough for me and the woman king you saw, that was when I was on Clubhouse and I had to get into debate with somebody who's the teacher, and he was like, well, for this movie, for me to like this movie, it had to be 100% historically accurate. And I said, okay, let me give you three movies and tell me if you like them. Do you like? Gladiator I called another Passion of Christ as well. I never watched that movie, but white person, the whole bunch, all movies were white people. Revenant. I gave revenant. I got him the third one, but I gave him three movies. But the godfather. Yeah. I was like, you like those three? Hell yeah. I do. I do. So were they historically accurate?

Amaka Abara [01:26:41]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [01:26:42]:

Why is that when it's a white cast, white star, you don't bring that? It has to be historically. If you want historically accurate, go read a book.

Amaka Abara [01:26:50]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:26:51]:

Go watch the documentary. The movie is to entertain you. Yes or no? Thank you. Well, it's not real about it should have been. You need to pause and ask yourself, why do I have this internal anger going on? There's something you need to solve within you this movie is not going to fix. But it only comes out when you see a black movie or an Asian cast. It only comes out when you see people of color and they are doing, I love this, but I can't say I love it because that woman was not smiling off. It always happens and started not seeing that. I'm like, I'm not wasting my time, you guys. Bye bye. I just pushed them away because tomorrow.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:27:36]:

There will always be another story coming up. Stories never end.

Raphael Harry [01:27:39]:

Oh, yeah. So anyway, we need to start wrapping up. Appreciate you guys giving me we went overboard and shout out to Josh who let us go extra.

Amaka Abara [01:27:48]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [01:27:51]:

So last time you guys gave me cuisine, but I was still Nigerian. But I just need to check out cuisine. What's your favorite London cuisine that's not Nigerian?

Amaka Abara [01:28:05]:

Okay. I think probably I'll go for Thai thai food.

Raphael Harry [01:28:10]:

Thai food. We winning on this podcast and Thai Thai food is legit Thai food.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:28:15]:

Okay.

Raphael Harry [01:28:15]:

Do you have a particular dish?

Amaka Abara [01:28:18]:

Yeah, I love the special fried rice. It comes with cashew nuts in it. Pineapple is delicious.

Raphael Harry [01:28:26]:

You should go to Chinatown in Queens. There's one here in Brooklyn, not far away from here.

Amaka Abara [01:28:32]:

Okay.

Raphael Harry [01:28:32]:

But as soon as you walk there going black, you travel to somewhere in Asia.

Amaka Abara [01:28:36]:

Okay.

Raphael Harry [01:28:38]:

I don't know if this red air, this red guy changed the whole thing because you have more authentic Asian food.

Amaka Abara [01:28:47]:

That's nice to know.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:28:48]:

I'm not fan of Thai food.

Raphael Harry [01:28:54]:

What's your favorite food? Your favorite London cuisine?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:28:57]:

I don't have it depends on my mood right now.

Raphael Harry [01:29:00]:

We need to know what's Jenny's favorite London cuisine at this moment.

Amaka Abara [01:29:05]:

Chachas.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:29:06]:

Well, that's only because they do nice hot wings.

Amaka Abara [01:29:09]:

That's why she always goes chachas.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:29:12]:

No, I'll tell you what it is, because in London there's a chicken and chip shop, burgers and stuff. Yeah, it's really good. However, because I tend to work outside of London, so when I come back home to London, everywhere else, their hot wings are not that nice. So I am like, oh, I have to eat because when I've been eating is rubbish.

Amaka Abara [01:29:40]:

Coming for you.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:29:42]:

But normally if I was to have a takeaway like, oh, I'm hungry, I need to eat something. I would love to have a Chinese.

Raphael Harry [01:29:52]:

That's another one that can't go wrong with boat.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:29:56]:

Yeah, because the thing is, Indian is good, but you can never hit or miss. Hit or miss.

Amaka Abara [01:30:01]:

People can't cook it properly.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:30:05]:

You haven't found one though.

Raphael Harry [01:30:10]:

I can call on my guy. He's from Nottingham. I don't know if that would count, but he's been in New York for like forever, so I don't know if that even counts to he might be more New York than UK anymore, but he's a good listener of the podcast and still needs to come on. By the way. That's his invite, a reminder to him. So last time you. Guys were on the show, you guys started a trend that I didn't realize will happen to me. You guys are responsible for most of my playlist, a lot of my piano. I had my bad day just last month, and everybody was like, wow, this playlist is good. But I was like my piano and justified. None of the Afro Beats you gave me, I didn't take today. I was like, they are right. They are right. But I hit the Afro beats world. And after this election, I can't study Afro beats. Like, yeah. Okay, so AMA piano is the way to go. And I love AMA piano. I love all the artist. So any updates to your music taste?

Amaka Abara [01:31:13]:

Yeah, me? I've gone now. Strictly to Afro Electro. Afro Techno Afro House. Yeah. I've just moved away from what? Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:31:26]:

Can you divorce? Is that possible?

Amaka Abara [01:31:31]:

It's like an imagined genre, and we have loads and loads of DJs, but mostly predominantly South Africans.

Raphael Harry [01:31:37]:

That's why you get South Africans again?

Amaka Abara [01:31:40]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:31:42]:

Are you sure it's not this same genre you were giving me, but you just called it no, I'm a parent.

Amaka Abara [01:31:46]:

It's quite different.

Raphael Harry [01:31:47]:

So it's an Afro techno afro electro.

Amaka Abara [01:31:50]:

Yeah. Deep House.

Raphael Harry [01:31:51]:

Deep House.

Amaka Abara [01:31:52]:

Afro House. I'm writing Afro House and Deep House.

Raphael Harry [01:31:55]:

All right. That's my playlist. About to be fire. My kids better going to be there. I didn't put this song on my playlist.

Amaka Abara [01:32:04]:

I'll send you a playlist. I'll send you a playlist, and then you can grow your thing from there. I got good rates, give you discount.

Raphael Harry [01:32:15]:

How much food and merchandise you buy from me. Any artists that you look out for?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:32:23]:

Lura. Lura?

Amaka Abara [01:32:28]:

No, lura is not in the Afro Bay.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:32:31]:

I'm talking about a different kind of artist to look out for.

Raphael Harry [01:32:34]:

Yeah.

Amaka Abara [01:32:38]:

DJ Shimza.

Raphael Harry [01:32:40]:

DJ Shimza.

Amaka Abara [01:32:41]:

And on YouTube, you look for Kunya records.

Raphael Harry [01:32:45]:

Kunya Records.

Amaka Abara [01:32:46]:

K-U-N-Y-E records.

Raphael Harry [01:32:49]:

That's on Nigeria.

Amaka Abara [01:32:50]:

No, that's Shimsa's outfits. That's where most people grew up from. So, yeah, just check that you get most of the hits and they have, like, playlists. They have, like, mixes.

Raphael Harry [01:33:01]:

Okay. That's why I got YouTube premium.

Amaka Abara [01:33:03]:

Yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:33:04]:

Flexing on the pieces. All right, so let's get to the final stuff. What's your takeaway from life that you want to leave the audience with?

Amaka Abara [01:33:16]:

Just don't keep a close mind to anything. Don't have a closed mindset to anything. Be open. Be open to experience. Be open to feel. Be open to learn. And be open to grow. Growth is painful, but accept it. Once you get to that part of the growth, you don't feel the pain anymore. Just be open to feel, learn, experience.

Raphael Harry [01:33:36]:

And grow some philosophical stuff.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:33:41]:

What I'll say is don't take life too seriously. When things don't seem to be going your way, don't keep saying Why? Why is things never going my way? Why me? Why me?

Raphael Harry [01:33:50]:

Why don't sing the banj why me?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:33:54]:

On? Yeah, just go with the flow of life. Don't take it too seriously, because anything could happen tomorrow. And enjoy each moment, each day the sun is out, just go out and enjoy the sun. Even if you sit outside your house, sometimes being in your room is comforting. Sometimes you just don't want to leave. But just standing in the shower and let that water touch you can do so much miracle for you if you think life is over. It's not. Life is never over until you're dead. It's never, ever over.

Raphael Harry [01:34:38]:

True.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:34:39]:

And, yeah, good luck to wherever everyone else is doing.

Raphael Harry [01:34:44]:

All right. So do you have anything you like to plug in?

Amaka Abara [01:34:50]:

Not really. I still black booty car. But since Palace Sessions has been on hold, so I'm just planning something very different. So hopefully, if you still stick with me on Blood Boudica Media, on Instagram, I kind of like I'm trying to do this diversify your playlist, where I incorporate Afro Latin music from Portuguese, Creole, Brazil, Kabu, Veggie, and Portugal. Black people from other parts, not just here. So I try to say diversify your playlist. I'm mostly like women. Like, the one I'm listening I found out was Fatimata, this beautiful woman from I think yeah, I think she's forgotten where she's from. I just ran into her.

Raphael Harry [01:35:36]:

Sounds familiar.

Amaka Abara [01:35:36]:

Yeah. So just diversify your playlist. Check out other black people from other parts of the world. You find one to know the other that you will love. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [01:35:45]:

All right. Jenny, got any plugin?

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:35:49]:

No, not right now. Maybe in the future, who knows? But for now, no, just me, myself, and I got to check.

Raphael Harry [01:35:56]:

All right, audience, thank you all for staying with us. Come back from another episode next week. And yeah, don't forget to keep supporting us. Keep the love coming in five stars by Match. Even if you want to protest, that's fine. Bond the Match bite bite first. All right. Do the good stuff. Be good. Be awesome. Thank you for the privilege of your company.

Amaka Abara [01:36:19]:

Thank you.

Jennifer-Ann Stodel [01:36:19]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [01:36:21]:

Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoyed the show, please give a five-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, donations, episode shows, feedback, guests, match, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play store and Apple coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company.