Welcome to our new website!
April 12, 2023

Ep 148: ”This Country Is Very Insular, A Lot Of People Don’t Know Anything About The Rest Of The World” ft Azam Ayub

Ep 148: ”This Country Is Very Insular, A Lot Of People Don’t Know Anything About The Rest Of The World” ft Azam Ayub

Join us for an insightful episode of White Label American, originally released on Nov 1st, 2019, as Azam Ayub shares his personal experiences and opinions on living in New York. Azam discusses the challenges of high rent and long commutes and draws ...

Apple Podcasts podcast player badge
Spotify podcast player badge
Google Podcasts podcast player badge
Castro podcast player badge
RSS Feed podcast player badge
Stitcher podcast player badge
Amazon Music podcast player badge
Deezer podcast player badge
Goodpods podcast player badge

Join us for an insightful episode of White Label American, originally released on Nov 1st, 2019, as Azam Ayub shares his personal experiences and opinions on living in New York. Azam discusses the challenges of high rent and long commutes and draws lessons from his passion for watching Manchester United. He also sheds light on the harmful effects of extreme opinions, emphasizing the importance of diversity and education. With a touch of humor, he shares his first signature purchase and dives into Bollywood and Indian classical music, exploring the cultural heritage and the evolution of music in India. Tune in to this fascinating conversation with Azam Ayub, the first guest born in India to appear on White Label American.

Looking back at this episode, it turned out to be shorter than usual. This was because the person I had originally planned to interview didn't show up, leaving me in a bind. Fortunately, Azam, who had been on my list of potential guests from the start, graciously agreed to step in at the last minute and save the day. I am truly grateful for his willingness to help out.

It's interesting to note that the original guest still hasn't been able to make it onto the show. However, I remain hopeful that someday we will have the opportunity to hear their story.

Moving on to Azam's episode, I really would be excited to ask this self-proclaimed Johnny Cash fan a few questions today. In this episode, we covered a lot of ground, but I have to admit that I was a bit anxious about time. As someone new to podcasting then, it was a challenge to keep everything on track. However, I'm proud of the style and approach I bring to the show, which helped us get through the day. I would be excited to have Azam and his wife back for an official Part II episode (he's already joined us for a soccer episode). And I'm especially pleased that I remembered to ask about the legendary soccer myth in Ghana and Nigeria. It was a detail I hadn't written down but had been wanting to ask someone raised in India about for a while.

This episode will always be dear to me, and I appreciate the privilege of your company. Thank you for tuning in.


Come join us on Patreon and access bonus content including our special The Last of Us discussion. https://www.patreon.com/whitelabelamericanpod


Not only that, but you can also show your support for the podcast by picking up some awesome merch, making a one-time donation, or giving us a 5-star review. www.whitelabelamerican.com


And the best part? You can listen to your favorite podcast anytime, anywhere with our free app, available on the Google Play Store. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=hr.apps.n245148&pli=1

So what are you waiting for? Join the conversation now and download the app! 

📚 Timestamped overview  

[00:05:23] "Music, Travel, and Cultural Exploration: An Engineer's Journey"

[00:07:22] "Payless: The Rise and Fall of a Retail Giant"

[00:10:13] New York: From Tourist Destination to Home

[00:13:26] "Why classic Bollywood music endures over time"

[00:15:25] "Exploring the Diversity of Indian Music Culture"

[00:24:58] "Sports Fandom Across Borders: Soft Spots Abroad"

[00:26:25] "The Challenge of Diversity and Resentment Worldwide"

[00:29:07] "The Power of Attitude: How Anger Affects Likability"

[00:32:56] "Never Give Up: Lessons from Manchester United"

[00:35:46] "Experiencing the Thrill of New York Derby"


Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to White Label american Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold, indepth interviews with interesting people that are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls one story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us.

Azam Ayub [00:00:24]:


Raphael Harry [00:00:38]:

Okay? Welcome to a new episode of White Label America. I have a very special guest with me, someone I've been dreaming of having on the show, and it's a huge honor to have you here. How will I describe him? He's one of the most unique people that I've met who his online personality is different from his in person personality, but they're still similar.

Azam Ayub [00:01:11]:

Isn't that true for everyone? I mean, people get online and act more tough than they are. Do I do I think you are very similar to your online personality.

Raphael Harry [00:01:23]:

Probably. It worked for me during online dating days. So that was one compliment. That was like, the first compliment I ever got, but, oh, you just like the person I spoke to online, which I was like, what? But hey, it happens. All right, so without much ado, welcome to the show. Azam. How do I pronounce it again?

Azam Ayub [00:01:44]:

It's actually awesome.

Raphael Harry [00:01:46]:

Like, awesome. Okay. That's why I was wondering when you said when you sent me that, I was like, awesome. Yes. All right.

Azam Ayub [00:01:55]:

I mean, they made the movie and then the hero is there, like, shazam, it's easier. So I go.

Raphael Harry [00:02:00]:


Azam Ayub [00:02:01]:

White people are very happy with that choice.

Raphael Harry [00:02:06]:

All right, so Ozam.

Azam Ayub [00:02:08]:


Raphael Harry [00:02:10]:

Should I try the last name?

Azam Ayub [00:02:12]:

It's Ayub.

Raphael Harry [00:02:13]:

Ayub? I could have gotten that.

Azam Ayub [00:02:16]:

It's my dad's name, so just use it. All right.

Raphael Harry [00:02:19]:

So, Azum ayub welcome to the show. It's a pleasure to have you. Azum works in finance, supports Man United, and thinks Andrew Young should be the jobs under the next president if America is not smart enough to elect Andrew Young as President. 46. All right, so let's begin. When did you arrive in the United States?

Azam Ayub [00:02:46]:

2007. March.

Raphael Harry [00:02:48]:


Azam Ayub [00:02:49]:

Yeah, it's been a while.

Raphael Harry [00:02:50]:

What was the first culture shock that you had?

Azam Ayub [00:02:53]:

Back then, alcohol was much cheaper. That was the first culture shock. Really, because in my country right, alcohol is priced at least twice or twice the price. Right. You can just walk into a liquor store and buy alcohol. You actually have to go stand outside a window and it's like a cage and the guy's selling you alcohol is on the other side.

Raphael Harry [00:03:17]:


Azam Ayub [00:03:17]:

And so you're standing in a line and all your aunts and all are walking by judging you. So you have to go through the shame and all. When I arrived here next day, one of my friends took me to an ABC liquor store. I actually came to North Carolina Charlotte. They took me to an ABC liquor store, and this was the most beautiful place in the world. I mean, not only they had everything. You could just pick it up and walk out. I mean, you had to buy it.

Raphael Harry [00:03:44]:

But, you know, you don't want the.

Azam Ayub [00:03:47]:

Cups, and it was actually cheaper. So, yeah, I mean, that was one thing, obviously, you know, beef, that's the next thing. Right? I mean, we love cows in India. Oh, yeah, we do eat meat, but India mostly is a vegetarian country. It's focused on vegetarianism and loving animals, so that was a little bit of a shock. But once I started eating it, I loved it. Same with bacon. In India, people don't eat bacon that much, or pork, for that matter. I started eating it, and I loved it. So that was the next thing.

Raphael Harry [00:04:25]:

Being that I grew up in Nigeria, bacon was like a rarity, so you had to be, like, upper class to have bacon. And I was like, yeah, I don't think I ever had bacon up to for the first 24 years of my life.

Azam Ayub [00:04:44]:


Raphael Harry [00:04:44]:

And by the time I finally had bacon, I was like, what? Is this overeating?

Azam Ayub [00:04:50]:

Okay. Wow.

Raphael Harry [00:04:52]:

That's probably why I don't eat bacon today, and I still make oh, you don't have bacon? Your breakfast. I'm like, Get it out of here. But probably if I started much earlier, I would have been to the game.

Azam Ayub [00:05:03]:

I mean, you do like sausage, though, right?

Raphael Harry [00:05:06]:

I do eat well, especially when you're married to a German. It's kind of hard not to like sausage, so you got no choice, but yeah. So you sound like as soon as you arrived in America, you went full rebel. What would be considered rebel back in India?

Azam Ayub [00:05:23]:

I mean, my parents didn't put a lot of restrictions on me to start with, and I grew up on music, which is classified as classic rock hard rock. So I always had that streak. Let's Zeppelin, rolling Stones. I always listened to them. And surprisingly enough, I also like Johnny Cash, Credence Clearwater Revival, and mostly New Orleans culture. I was very much into it, the music scene and all. So when I came here right. I just wanted to experience all of that. It involved traveling. I traveled a lot across the country, and this is a very insular country, despite the fact that there are military bases all over the world. And thank you for your service, obviously, as you're a vet. But this country is very insular. A lot of people don't know anything about rest of the world, and restaurants are not catered to other cultures. I mean, they're just not. Right. So if you're traveling around the country, either you just eat bread or pack your own lunch, or you just have to start eating what Americans eat. I was open to it, so I did obviously, by trade, I am an engineer. I was well, now I'm in finance, but I did my engineering from India, and engineers do tend to enjoy their drinking. That's how we get through four years of engineering.

Raphael Harry [00:06:56]:

I thought it was the other way around with bankers, but I believe you.

Azam Ayub [00:07:01]:

Just improved the quality of your alcohol when you should become a banker.

Raphael Harry [00:07:06]:

So you arrived in North Carolina, right?

Azam Ayub [00:07:12]:


Raphael Harry [00:07:13]:

And then moved around I did. Moved around different states. So when did you decide to make New York home? How did that happen?

Azam Ayub [00:07:22]:

Well, I used to work for a company called Payless in Topeka, Kansas. They are suffering right now. I mean, stores are closing, but it was a little before recession hit. Right. And they were doing extremely well at that .6 thousand stores around the country. There were stores in Colombia, all over the world, really? If you consider America as the world. North America and South America. And they were doing extremely well. But I think the signs were there of how ecommerce was changing things. Right. And suddenly their shoes that were decently priced were not decently priced anymore, and people stopped going to the malls, and it kind of all fall into place. And eventually, I think they realized that they need to cut cost. Right. And the first thing they did was hire more consultants, which they did. And then eventually jobs started going away in a way. And at that point, my job was gone. And I had a choice to make whether find another job in retail space, because I used to do data warehousing. Retail data warehousing? It's a very technical job, database related. I had to make a choice whether to find another job in retail or move to the sector that actually caused the crash, the banks. So I decided I'll just be part of the problem. So, yeah, I decided to move to New York. Found a job at JPMorgan in 2010, February.

Raphael Harry [00:08:59]:

So you've been with them?

Azam Ayub [00:09:01]:

Yeah, I've been with them since then, nine years now.

Raphael Harry [00:09:06]:


Azam Ayub [00:09:06]:

Yeah, thank you.

Raphael Harry [00:09:09]:

It's an interesting point of views. It's right here. People say that they made that move into the describe the financial sector as those who cause the crash. Which is right. Which is true. It's not like you're making that up. So as JP. Morgan, that brought you to New York officially?

Azam Ayub [00:09:31]:


Raphael Harry [00:09:31]:

And after that, you decided, I'm not going anywhere. I'm staying here.

Azam Ayub [00:09:36]:

So initially I came in there as part of a consultant company. I think most people come in these banks when you're coming in on the finance side, you're coming in as an intern or as an initial associate to a banker or investor. And then on the technology side, they do a lot of hiring of consultants. They also hire employees and college graduates. But in my case, because I had a retail background, I took first come in as a consultant, and then I proved myself, and they converted me.

Raphael Harry [00:10:05]:

All right, so what was your first impression when you arrived in New York?

Azam Ayub [00:10:13]:

I was traveling around the country. In my initial years here, I had been here as a tourist. And I really like the place because you pretty much have your choice of food. You have your choice of nightlife, especially in your twenty s bar. Crawl scene is great. Music is great. There are lots of concerts, there are places to see. And all of that is good about New York that you can enjoy as a tourist. Right? I did once I moved in here. Then you start seeing the problems that living in New York poses. Right. High rent commuting takes forever. The subway system, which is 100 years old, all of that. Right. When you experience, I think, the beauty a little bit diminishes. But then in 2016, when Donald Trump got elected, I kind of realized that being in New York is better than anywhere else. Really. I mean, sure, you could be in any of the big cities, but I think all the problems that are caused here by having so many people here right. In a very small space, I think that also helps us because we learn how to adjust with people. We learn how to adjust with people that don't look like us or don't act like us, or are not in the same financial state as us because we are forced to travel in the subway. We just have to live with this with each other. We might be angry or annoyed at each other, but that's just equally to everyone. And I think from that perspective, this is the greatest city in the world.

Raphael Harry [00:11:56]:

It is to me, yeah. The rent is still an issue, but rent otherwise, New York is still the best city in the world that I've been to, and it's also home to me.

Azam Ayub [00:12:06]:


Raphael Harry [00:12:07]:

So let's go a little bit back in Nigeria, as a kid, every Friday was Bollywood night on the states and federal TVs. And for some reason, I can't even recall most of the movies that I saw. But we saw so many movies. I think boning train. Boning train was one.

Azam Ayub [00:12:31]:

Train, yes, that was the title.

Raphael Harry [00:12:34]:

I thought I made that up because that movie I can't recall how many times we watched that movie. Although I can't remember anything right now except for the train on Fire. Too Fun. Too Fun was another one we used to sing. That was the only one that I did some of the singing, too. I tried to be that man's. Man's, boys, tough boy. Like, get out of here.

Azam Ayub [00:12:58]:

Who sings?

Raphael Harry [00:12:59]:

But yeah, now I'm like, man, maybe I should have done some singing because I like the singing and dancing anyway. So what was Bollywood like for you? Are you a big fan?

Azam Ayub [00:13:09]:

I have lost touch, to be honest. I think the last Hindi movie that I saw was a few years ago. At least in the theaters.

Raphael Harry [00:13:18]:

You're better than me compared to Nigeria movies. Never seen one with theater.

Azam Ayub [00:13:26]:

The budgets have gone up, the production value has gone up, and also they are making a lot of diversified movies as opposed to just song and dance. So there's a lot of good stuff going on. I think Bollywood to me, when I was growing up was all about these black and white movies that they were showing on Saturdays and Sundays. And these old movies had just this amazing musical quality. And I think that is true for any music, really. I don't know why. Sixty s, seventy s music everywhere, all around the world has this quality that it just endures. It just goes on forever and you would always love it. And that is my memory from them. And sometimes I would just be on YouTube music and I'll be looking for these old songs and it's just beautiful. I just don't enjoy Bollywood music anymore. The newer stuff, it just seems too loud to me and I don't know.

Raphael Harry [00:14:21]:

Does it have a reputational feel? It does have a similar problem with lots of Nigerian.

Azam Ayub [00:14:27]:

I think it's just easier to produce that sort of music. I feel like if you look at Led Zeppelin they would not release an album without having 18 songs in it. And each song right, would be seven to eleven minutes long. True. That takes a lot of work to produce as opposed to quick single, five people coming together, writing it and making money off it. So, I mean, that is what is plaguing Bollywood as well. But I'm pretty sure there are some good movies, there are some good producers, good actors because I think the world has shrunk and quality training is available provided you have the means to attain it. And that definitely proves quality.

Raphael Harry [00:15:08]:

That's the other side to it. So from the songs of the what you recommend for someone who's a lover of music and has never really dangled into that part of the world music wise.

Azam Ayub [00:15:25]:

Right? So India is a very diverse country in terms of language, right? We have like 23 different recognized languages. Some are based on Sanskrit and some are classically based on South Indian languages which are very different from Sanskrit. And so there's great music all over the country. There's great music in Indian classical music. And if you look at Indian classical if you look on YouTube you'll see a lot of Indian singers, musicians, unique instruments like Sarod or Sitar. Panditra Vishankar was very, very popular because he played with a lot of big name rock and roll musicians. And so that is one side of it, right? Indian classical music. You can look at it, you can get into it and it's an amazing experience to follow some of these old legends. And there's a huge culture of hereditary patronage and lineage for these houses of music. There are houses of music in India where father to son, they teach and they impart this knowledge and music which has lingered and which has endured. Right? But then the Bollywood side obviously we don't have a rich history of individual singers making their own music. But, yes, the movies. Sixty s and seventy s. Beautiful music. I mean, if I have to recommend one movie, I would say the Movie Guide. Guide, yes, it has beautiful songs. I would say start from there.

Raphael Harry [00:17:07]:

I wouldn't be surprised if I've seen that movie because, yeah, Friday was not complete without Bollywood from 07:00 P.m., except if there was a power outage. But it was huge in Nigeria. I was like, yeah, you had uncles and aunts. What are you watching? Put up Bollywood, man. All bollywood. So, being that you're the first Indian to appear on this show, there's something the story that I have to share turn into a question. So, growing up as a kid in Nigeria, soccer is, like, our number one spot there. And I don't even know how that story came about. But one day, somebody's like, why does India not play at a World Cup? And I said, oh, it's because of the city I lived in was Benicity, which the slang for voodoo was called jazz. Indians, they love jazz too much. They use so much jazz. Like, FIFA had to ban them. Like, what? So Nigeria played FIFA played India at a FIFA tournament one time, and India beat Nigeria 100. Goes to zero. Now, depending on who you talk to, the story goes as 100 to zero. There was one time they told me a variation in which Pele switched to Nigeria and tried to score a goal, and he got one goal for Nigeria, but broke his foot because the ball looked like a lion coming to him. And when he kicked the ball, his foot broke, but he still went.

Azam Ayub [00:18:45]:

I think all of that is true. As an Indian, I can tell you all of that happened.

Raphael Harry [00:18:49]:

That was like, wow. So that's why we don't see Indians playing football. So that became the story. Until earlier this year, I was on BBC, on Instagram, and I think BBC Africa, and they showed a Ghanaian talking about the same story, like, oh, India, whooped Ghana by 100 goals. I was like, Wait, that's not Nigerian story. Not Ghanaian story. So do Indians know about this story out there? About whooping? Two African countries.

Azam Ayub [00:19:15]:

Well, no, but I would go with that, right? Because a lot of African countries, especially Nigeria, I mean, Super Eagles, everyone loves them. Pale infamously predicted them to win the World Cup, but the Brazil win, that was great. Kanu. Yakubu kanu especially. That was JJ. Beautiful player, India. We used to be decent. In 60s. We did qualify for the Olympics and the World Cup as well. I think 58 World Cup, I can't recall very well. But most of our players used to play barefoot.

Raphael Harry [00:19:58]:


Azam Ayub [00:19:59]:

And I think the transition was difficult. And at some point in time, the country just switched to cricket. And cricket became so popular in the country that essentially every other sport suffered and it's not cricket's fault, it's popularity.

Raphael Harry [00:20:17]:

Because of football.

Azam Ayub [00:20:18]:

Exactly. People's focus is all the kids play cricket, so just the talent pool, right, is shallow. But now, right, I mean I would create Premier League a lot for football to be really popular in India now and kids wanting to learn football, play football. And so I have hopes about India doing well in future despite the fact that we have been following English Premier League for 20 years. Also, most Indians support either Brazil or Argentina in the World Cups. We are still lagging. 100 plus is our rating. We should do a lot better, but I have hopes that we'll do better in future.

Raphael Harry [00:21:00]:

Hi everyone. If you're new to the podcast or a returning listener and you enjoy what we are doing here, did you know that you could enjoy more of our content and also support our work via Patreon? For as little as $3 per month you get access to loads of bonus content that you'll find nowhere and be the first to latest news. Don't miss out. Go to Patreon.com White Labelamericanpod or just search for White Labelamerican podcast on Patreon. P-A-T-R-E-O-N. So how did you become a My United fan?

Azam Ayub [00:21:42]:

So I think it was sometime in late 90s that Star Sports started showing.

Raphael Harry [00:21:50]:

Oh, I remember. Star sports. We also had Star Sports on one.

Azam Ayub [00:21:54]:

They started showing football in India and I think the broadcast used to be usually from Singapore or Hong Kong, one of those places. Right. And I think prior to that I did have cousins in my family who always supported Liverpool. We have some family, distant family in England as well. So they all supported Liverpool. I think some of them supported Manchester United, but most of them supported Liverpool. So as a kid growing up, you hear about Liverpool, Liverpool, Liverpool. So obviously you feel like a little bit of trying to find your own thing, right?

Raphael Harry [00:22:34]:


Azam Ayub [00:22:34]:

And then in late 90s when Star Sports starts showing football, English Premier League and sometimes Syria as well, I kind of gravitated towards two teams, AC Milan and Manchester United.

Raphael Harry [00:22:47]:

Good teams.

Azam Ayub [00:22:51]:

And just that 99 season.

Raphael Harry [00:22:54]:

Oh man, I was mad at that.

Azam Ayub [00:22:57]:

It was just epic. Especially Ryan Giggs, that goal and just fell in love and AC Milan were gone. I really, really wanted to own a jersey from AC Milan because the jersey looked beautiful.

Raphael Harry [00:23:14]:

Oh man.

Azam Ayub [00:23:15]:

In the late 90s, early 2000s. But yeah, from that point onwards and I think the more you follow, the more you read, the more you learn, right. You become more obsessed about it. And now it's just part of life where you feel sad when they don't do well and you feel amazing when they do well. And sometimes I feel like in last six years when we have not been doing that well, I feel like it just makes things, overall things a little bit sadder, and you don't tend to enjoy things that much. I don't know if most fans feel like that, but I definitely feel like.

Raphael Harry [00:23:48]:

That way because as a Real Madrid realm is my number one team.

Azam Ayub [00:23:53]:

And when Real Madrid, you've won three times in the last four years, what.

Raphael Harry [00:23:58]:

Do you have to complain back after we signed Beckham? Which is one reason why I'm not a fan of David Beckham, by the way. I don't hate him, but I'm not a fan of David Beckham. But he came to our team and then we went four years without winning a trophy. The drought happened, and I saw people like, that was my first experience with Band Wagonos because everybody was like, no, I used to be a Real Madrid fan, but now I spot Barcelona. I spot Chelsea, I suppose. And I was like, Wait, but I know you. We used to go watch Real Madrid games together. They're like, I don't spot Real Madrid anymore.

Azam Ayub [00:24:34]:

I think there's a six month period. I think six months is well, okay. I'll give people a full season. One season, you get to flip flop. Okay? After the season, you choose your team and you stick with them.

Raphael Harry [00:24:48]:

I don't think I know. I want them in every country.

Azam Ayub [00:24:53]:

And I just talked when you start.

Raphael Harry [00:24:55]:

When you start, right, okay. For a brand new all right.

Azam Ayub [00:24:58]:

Of course, in other countries, you can like other teams, right? Like, I have a soft spot for AC Milan. I will always do. Yes. I've always liked Madrid better. I mean, there is some history about after the Munich disaster, right? Real Madrid did offer some players to us, and they were nice to us, but overall, I just don't buy what Barcelona sells. True. As people's club and how they claim that they don't actually spend money when it's ridiculous. They have spent more money than anyone else. And so I have liked Real Madrid as the team in La Liga, but to be honest, you know, I mean, I don't follow La Liga, I don't care much for it. And Bundesliga, I don't watch it at all.

Raphael Harry [00:25:49]:

But it's exciting. You should. Exciting league.

Azam Ayub [00:25:52]:

Yeah. For me it's EPL because I love Manchester United, but otherwise the league that I really enjoy watching is Syria.

Raphael Harry [00:26:00]:

Always love Syria.

Azam Ayub [00:26:01]:

Always have, always will. Even though the quality in last few years has been down a bit. It's getting better, though.

Raphael Harry [00:26:07]:

Last season was pretty minor, is the racist incident.

Azam Ayub [00:26:09]:

Of course. I mean, that has always been the.

Raphael Harry [00:26:11]:

Case, that's always been there.

Azam Ayub [00:26:12]:

And I think it's not just about their federation.

Raphael Harry [00:26:19]:


Azam Ayub [00:26:19]:

And what they are doing or the clubs. I think it's the people.

Raphael Harry [00:26:23]:

It's a reflection on the society.

Azam Ayub [00:26:25]:

Yes. Unless they improve the quality of their people through education and diversity, it's not going to change. Problem, though, is that in most of these countries, people who are native to the land are suffering economically because of global trends, and that basically brings resentment and people just scapegoats. Yeah, people have easy targets to blame. And so if, say, Italy experienced this diversity when economy was booming for them, I think you won't hear so much about all the hatred. But again, I'm probably oversimplifying this because people of color, especially black people, probably get hatred no matter what. Because sometimes people I don't know what it is, but I've not done enough research on this. But I think people tend to empathize less with people as they move darker.

Raphael Harry [00:27:25]:

On the spectrum, the way I was raised too. So even though I'm black and as dark as they come, I've been one of those who like, yeah, black person, I don't see eye to eye with you, don't see why I should care about your problem. Until my brain got opened and I started seeing like, wow, yeah, I've been 100% ignorant and anti black at one stage in my life too. So, yeah, it's sad to see. And it's one reason why I hope people can learn and hear stuff like this, hopefully.

Azam Ayub [00:28:10]:

I think the only way to do it is to meet people and know people and talk to people.

Raphael Harry [00:28:15]:

That's it. I have someone who because I just started a new job, and I have someone who works with me, and he's a black guy, and I get where he's coming from, but he seems to have an issue with black women who may have spawned him in the past or like, African women don't want to go with him. And you need to understand the people you encounter. I don't believe every African woman wouldn't want to date an African American, but it's not like they're encouraged to. So you should not hate the women. You should understand that it's a system that created them that way. But he said something to me the other day. He said, oh, you sound like a black woman because you're saying stuff that black woman will say. I said, you haven't said if I'm saying a lie or if I'm saying the truth.

Azam Ayub [00:29:07]:

I think most people react to their experiences and their circumstances and the people that they meet. And then if you take all those experiences and take them as absolute and then basically go, yep, this is my opinion, I think then you know that. And if that opinion is of anger towards others, I think that reflects in how you meet people, how you talk to them true. And that will essentially make you less likable, and then that further solidifies your own opinion. And then basically you are living in that bubble. I mean, look at all the incels. How much hatred is there? And I don't get it. Right. There are other people. I mean, there are billions and billions of people. How is it that you're going, oh, women don't like us because blah, blah, blah, blah. But I'm totally datable, and they don't like us because I don't know what the word is. Becky or whatnot? I don't know if Becky is the word or I don't know what the word is, one of the words. I'm not into the insult space, but I just don't get it. Basically, if you're not a criminal, if you have a job, if you act in a presentable gentlemanly way, there is no way that it is completely impossible for you to find a woman. Right.

Raphael Harry [00:30:25]:

Or even a man.

Azam Ayub [00:30:26]:

Or even a man.

Raphael Harry [00:30:27]:

Some of them have not faced their truths.

Azam Ayub [00:30:29]:

Of course, that is true as well. I mean, that is probably a little bit down to the society and cultures and communities as well, where they don't allow you to express yourself. So that obviously is there as well.

Raphael Harry [00:30:40]:

Yeah, well, we've covered a few topics and gone round in a circle. So before as we get closer to rounding up two questions, one is a serious question. One is I won't say it's that serious. I use myself as an example. We'll start with the non serious side of things. So as soon as I started getting my first paycheck after I moved to the United States, I was like, you know what, I need to get me something to show that I've arrived, per se. So I walked into a phone store and I was like, yeah, give me the iPhone. Everybody's talking about iPhone, give me one. And then they're like, oh, you don't have a credit so you have to deposit 500? Hell no, it's just for calling and texting. So no, but I walked into the next store and I saw it was an electronic store and I saw a huge toshiba. I can't remember what model. That laptop was huge. Now when I see photos, I'm like goodness. And I was like, yeah, that was how much? Like 1000 something. I was like, Give it to me. That's like my first signature purchase that I made. So did you ever do something like that?

Azam Ayub [00:31:56]:

Yeah, sure. I mean, I bought a leather jacket. I look like Top Gun, Tom Cruise. I still do sometimes I put on leather jacket danger zone.

Raphael Harry [00:32:16]:

There's nothing wrong with spoiling yourself, but it was like I just blew the whole cache. I had that laptop. It gave me joy.

Azam Ayub [00:32:25]:

Yes, joy and experience. I think people sometimes tend to underrate these things. I think it's beautiful.

Raphael Harry [00:32:32]:

Yes, me too. Me too. Some people did not like it, though, that you have a laptop. What about me? I was like, what? Yeah. So as we get to the end, what's one life lesson or advice that you like to give? Maybe it's something that has been given to you and you repeat that as a mantra or a code or principle.

Azam Ayub [00:32:56]:

It's just going to sound very childish or amateurish, but it's something that I learned from watching Manchester United over the years. I mean, this one thing, I don't know if it's a. Cliche or if it's a real thing. But this idea that you never give up, you never know when you have actually been beaten. It could be as simple as running on the treadmill. You complete that five K that you're trying to run on the treadmill. Or it could be just at work, you're trying to get something done and people are telling you it can't be done. The date cannot be met. And you meet those dates just that. Don't give up. Just keep going at it. Obviously, it's very simple to say life actually throws a lot of challenges and sometimes you just have to accept it. But I would say have that impression in people that you're someone who doesn't know when they have lost. I like that. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:34:03]:

And I can relate to that, having watched Man United a few times because, oh, my goodness, they're huge. In Nigeria, Arsenal is still the largest team. And they started having fun clubs. They were the first to organize and fun clubs, and they just spread like, oh, my goodness. Everywhere I went. Arsenal fan club, I couldn't stand them.

Azam Ayub [00:34:29]:

But I like Arsenal. I like what they're about. I like Arsenal.

Raphael Harry [00:34:34]:

I used to like I used to like them at first when they used to beat my United. But the more they started having fans everywhere, it became like Barcelona all of a sudden. And Barcelona fans that are existing after.

Azam Ayub [00:34:46]:

I think they tried to tap into this whole nonsense of we are a different type of club, which they shouldn't have, I think, on their own. Exciting football under Wenger, I think beautiful. That's what they should have tapped into. I think they try to tap into, like, a different type of football, which is nonsense. I mean, if you ask any Arsenal fan, would they rather not spend the money? I think they would.

Raphael Harry [00:35:14]:

They would.

Azam Ayub [00:35:15]:


Raphael Harry [00:35:16]:


Azam Ayub [00:35:17]:

Anyone would.

Raphael Harry [00:35:21]:

Well, we had a lot of soccer in this episode, which is good because.

Azam Ayub [00:35:24]:

We are both soccer fans. It matters to us.

Raphael Harry [00:35:27]:

Yes. Hell, yeah. And if you're not a soccer fan listening, we hope we can convert you. You don't have to support Real Madrid or Man United. There are other teams but preferably you should choose one of those.

Azam Ayub [00:35:38]:

I think if you're in New York, you should support New York Red Bull.

Raphael Harry [00:35:41]:

Yeah, New York Red Bull.

Azam Ayub [00:35:43]:

New York is red.

Raphael Harry [00:35:45]:

Did you guys win yesterday?

Azam Ayub [00:35:46]:

Yes. Well, I won't say us guys because by guys, I mean Manchester United always. Okay. But I do like to watch them because New York City FC are Manchester City Light, and I like to support them. And we did go. My wife and I went there. Really enjoyed the day. South block, which is the number one supporters group of New York Red Bull. They were in full force. The stadium was bouncing. It was one of the best things I've actually watched in terms of Derby football. Oh, really? It was fantastic. I would recommend to anyone, obviously, Path trains are terrible. It's difficult. But, I mean, if you can watch the New York Derby, it's fun also, because New York Red Bull always win. I mean, they always win against New York City. I see.

Raphael Harry [00:36:39]:

Somehow I'm a DC United guy.

Azam Ayub [00:36:42]:

DC United.

Raphael Harry [00:36:45]:


Azam Ayub [00:36:46]:

So I didn't mean any disrespect. That's the chat.

Raphael Harry [00:36:54]:

All right, so this will be the end, and thank you once again for coming on. Hopefully, we'll do another episode with you.

Azam Ayub [00:37:02]:

Absolutely, yeah. I mean, it's an honor.

Raphael Harry [00:37:05]:

You can bring the misses next time and we'll talk more stuff.

Azam Ayub [00:37:08]:

I guess she would hear this and she would critique me. So next time, yeah, I might bring her, see, how do you do.

Raphael Harry [00:37:14]:

She probably do better than looking forward to that. Thank you. Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoyed the show, please give a five-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, for donations, episodes, feedback, guests, match, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play store and Apple. Coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company. You.